Dragonfish initiative? |
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Dobbsy
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Post subject: Dragonfish initiative?  Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:19 am |
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Is the intention for the Dragonfish NOT to have initiative 1+ an oversight or is that the general consensus? It seems odd to have the Shas'o in one formation with 1+ while another has 2+.
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Honda
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Post subject: Dragonfish initiative? Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:30 pm |
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Well, I'd like to see it have a +1
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Honda
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Tactica
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Post subject: Dragonfish initiative? Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:44 pm |
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Dobbsy & Honda,
If something 'seems wrong', its worth looking at but usually there's a root problem if something's not right...
First and foremost on my mind - does it need it for rules / game balance?
Second, are you avoiding taking it due to the 2+ init when your SC could have 1+ init?
Elaborate on your thoughts a bit if you don't mind.
Cheers,
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Dragonfish initiative? Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:06 pm |
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To be honest, this is an oversight - due to the upgrading of the Crisis Cadre, and missing the Dragonfish. My gut reaction is that it should be 1+, but Tacticas points still stand.
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clausewitz
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Post subject: Dragonfish initiative? Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:54 pm |
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This is a bit more of a gray area, as the Dragonfish is actually an upgrade to the Scorpionfish formation (which is initiative 2+, and should be so).
I don't think there is any other formation in any army that gets an initiative change from an upgrade unit.
I'm not opposed to the Dragonfish having initiative 1+, but it'll need to be carefully worded in the army list. Over to you CyberShadow 
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tneva82
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Post subject: Dragonfish initiative? Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:22 pm |
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| Quote (clausewitz @ 25 Jan. 2006 (16:54)) | | I don't think there is any other formation in any army that gets an initiative change from an upgrade unit. |
Black guardians from Ulthwe? 1/3 guardian warhosts have free black guardian upgrade which gives them 1+ initiave._________________ www.tneva.net
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Chroma
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Post subject: Dragonfish initiative? Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:41 pm |
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| Quote (tneva82 @ 25 Jan. 2006 (17:22)) | | Quote (clausewitz @ 25 Jan. 2006 (16:54)) | | I don't think there is any other formation in any army that gets an initiative change from an upgrade unit. |
Black guardians from Ulthwe? 1/3 guardian warhosts have free black guardian upgrade which gives them 1+ initiave. |
Black Guardians are now their own seperate formation with different options and upgrades, not an upgrade to the base Guardian Warhost.
The only reason I see the Dragonfish having 2+ Init, is that the Shas'O is slightly more busy onboard than jumping around in a Crisis suit... 
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Steele
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Post subject: Dragonfish initiative? Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:11 pm |
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| Quote (Chroma @ 25 Jan. 2006 (18:41)) | | Quote (tneva82 @ 25 Jan. 2006 (17:22)) | | Quote (clausewitz @ 25 Jan. 2006 (16:54)) | | I don't think there is any other formation in any army that gets an initiative change from an upgrade unit. |
Black guardians from Ulthwe? 1/3 guardian warhosts have free black guardian upgrade which gives them 1+ initiave. |
Black Guardians are now their own seperate formation with different options and upgrades, not an upgrade to the base Guardian Warhost.
The only reason I see the Dragonfish having 2+ Init, is that the Shas'O is slightly more busy onboard than jumping around in a Crisis suit... ? |
Why should he be more busy? In the Dragonfish he might have ample Input from the Battlefield on several screens , but the work should remain the same. He might command just without worrying about beeing shot at while jumping, and the Dragonfish should offer more protection.
EDIT: But still, if you think that only a Commander in a Battlesuit should have Ini 1+ , then so be it.
Steele
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Chroma
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Post subject: Dragonfish initiative? Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:50 pm |
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| Quote (Steele @ 25 Jan. 2006 (20:11)) | EDIT: But still, if you think that only a Commander in a Battlesuit should have Ini 1+ , then so be it.
Steele |
It's not the Shas'O who has 1+ Initiative, it's Battlesuit Cadres! Any upgrades you add to that cadre will also be going at a 1+, regardless of what they are, it's got nothing to do with a Tau commander's presence.
The Dragonfish is just slightly slower to act than Battlesuits, that's all the difference in initiative means and I think it makes sense.
Crisis Suits are there to be rapid first-responders to a crisis, hence their improved initiative, that is all.
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Honda
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Post subject: Dragonfish initiative? Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:34 am |
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Elaborate on your thoughts a bit if you don't mind.
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+1 iz bedder dan +2, purty simpel
I was just thinking from a CF perspective, that it would be more effective.
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HecklerMD
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Post subject: Dragonfish initiative? Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:38 am |
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IMHO, a Stealth Contingent is more justified in 1+ init than the bigFish(s), as they are as "elite" as the Crisis Pilots, if not moreso. SpecOps Battlesuits and such.
Its not linked to the commander.
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Steele
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Post subject: Dragonfish initiative? Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:38 am |
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| Quote (Chroma @ 25 Jan. 2006 (21:50)) | | Quote (Steele @ 25 Jan. 2006 (20:11)) | EDIT: But still, if you think that only a Commander in a Battlesuit should have Ini 1+ , then so be it.
Steele |
It's not the Shas'O who has 1+ Initiative, it's Battlesuit Cadres! ?Any upgrades you add to that cadre will also be going at a 1+, regardless of what they are, it's got nothing to do with a Tau commander's presence.
The Dragonfish is just slightly slower to act than Battlesuits, that's all the difference in initiative means and I think it makes sense.
Crisis Suits are there to be rapid first-responders to a crisis, hence their improved initiative, that is all. |
Yes I now that , and by chance the SC could have it too, so why not giving it the 1+ ? If the Command Array is destroyed it?s no longer a SC and therefore may revert to 2+. How does it sounds?
Cheers!
Steele
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Steele
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Post subject: Dragonfish initiative? Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:39 am |
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| Quote (HecklerMD @ 26 Jan. 2006 (04:38)) | IMHO, a Stealth Contingent is more justified in 1+ init than the bigFish(s), as they are as "elite" as the Crisis Pilots, if not moreso. ?SpecOps Battlesuits and such.
Its not linked to the commander. |
At first I thought that all BATTLESUITS would get 1+. 
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Dragonfish initiative? Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:51 am |
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The option that I am favouring currently is making the increased initiative a part of the Tau Supreme Commander special rule. This should apply it to all commanders (Dragonfish and Shas'O) and keep the rule specific and simple. I agree that it is a good idea to add it to these two units, but I think that making all battlesuits 1+ initiative would be going a little too far.
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But...