Page 2 of 12

[ 177 posts ]

Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12  Next

Tigershark
nealhunt	Post subject: Tigershark Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:50 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	Someone referenced Eldar bombers with a 45cm range.  The Tigershark is not like the Eldar because the Eldar's primary weapon is not its 45cm gun.  It still has to get close to maximize firepower.  The Tigershark's primary weapon is 45cm and it has a couple other potshots at 30/45cm, making it effectively much longer ranged. ==== I don't really have a proposal for what to do. To be honest, I really don't care for the air rules at all as I've never thought they flowed smoothly.  Generally, I take a bit of defensive AA ability to slow down enemy air and leave it at that. All I can tell you is that I read the Tau list and it looked like the air was very powerful, so I made a list that I thought could exploit it and it worked. _________________ Neal
Top

Breten	Post subject: Tigershark Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:05 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:15 pm Posts: 177	That sounds to me like your opponents weren't prepared to deal with it.  None of the guys in my group play with airforces really.  I walked in there with just my 3 Barracudas and ripped stuff up.  Had I taken Tigersharks it would have been worse.  I don't think taking just a couple of Hydras is going to help you against Tau air superiority.  He'd need some Thunderbolts in there, and maybe take a Hydra formation instead of attachment.
Top

RedDevil	Post subject: Tigershark Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:07 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:58 pm Posts: 112	Leave it be.  When you face IG you need to worry about DeathStrikes.  When you face Space Marines you need to worry about ThunderHawk assaults with chap etc. etc.  All lists have a "nice" unit or "quirky" unit.  If we can't even fully agree that its broken, then leave it as our "good" or "quirky" unit.
Top

Tactica	Post subject: Tigershark Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:50 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	I'm definitely with RD on this one. _________________ Rob
Top

The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Tigershark Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:07 am

Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm Posts: 8139 Location: London

Quote (Breten @ 21 Dec. 2005 (22:05)) That sounds to me like your opponents weren't prepared to deal with it.  None of the guys in my group play with airforces really.  I walked in there with just my 3 Barracudas and ripped stuff up.  Had I taken Tigersharks it would have been worse.  I don't think taking just a couple of Hydras is going to help you against Tau air superiority.  He'd need some Thunderbolts in there, and maybe take a Hydra formation instead of attachment. There was a big debate a while back in part triggered by the Chaos Fighter Bomber of Doom. It sorta showed up the problems with air. In essence it was that they are hard to counter in low point games but hard to use in high point games, relating mostly to the density of flak. Air also has to be dealt with in a special fashion. Deathstrikes and the like can just be shot when you get down to it. Air - unless you have flak - is immune to everything. So the flak race starts. I've seen it now in the last tourney I went to with ork lists that had more flak wagons than gun wagonz (with the 4 strong crisis squadron being popular). Guard wise I tend to run with 5 Hydras and 2 thunderbolts at 2700-3000 points. The more powerful airpower gets in other lists, the more that changes. Air can be very powerful if used carefully. In the Guard armies I always have 2 thunderbolts and they invariably kill 2-3 times their points in the game and I have never ever lost them both, losing one in a mere handful of occasions. They are incidentally 6+ saves, 1 hit point. I've got a 3500 point game coming up Friday it seems and seeing this I'm awful tempted to take 3 Squadrons of these things and go tank hunting. I'll be dealing with a couple of hydra formations probably and an intergral couple of hydras, nothing to harsh. I should be laughing I reckon. Against the inevitable LR company I should be scoring 8 or so kills and therfore 11 BM a turn. Thats a dead company! Hell if he turns up with marines instead I'm even better off, I can wipe out 1-2 formations a turn! Oh and since when did Mauraders have disrupt? (This is the Imperiums plane?) Actually I'd be torn between 6 individual planes to up activations and firepower (more blast markers) or 3 squadrons for survivablilty. I reckon I'll go with 1 squadron and 4 individuals. _________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com! 'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x

Top

The_Real_Chris	Post subject: Tigershark Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:09 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm Posts: 8139 Location: London	And if it works guess what I'll take to the next tourney I go to _________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com! 'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x
Top

Tactica	Post subject: Tigershark Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:06 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	I think a big chunk of the chaos debate was due to the 'Ignore Cover' ability when combined with '4BP' ability and then putting it on a plane that has 100% access to the field. It was a better at 'bombing' than the Maurader Bomber for some unknown/justified reason. It was further complicated by the unit existing in a list that was already over the top at the time. So there were several factors contributing to the debate TRC mentions - if memory serves. We are not talking about the same situation. First, the Tau are justified with the plane having the abilities it has - even better stats actually. However, we've toned it down. It may still need to be reduced to a single plane in the formation instead of 2 - to address the situation the NH brought up. However, unless more people report that problem, I don't think we want to make hasty changes to a list that has been working off of one report. They due need to be adequately counterable for game play purposes lest we have an effective 'invincible' air formation. Nobody wants that. BTW: disrupt on maurader... well, I was confuzzled.   _________________ Rob
Top

The_Real_Chris	Post subject: Tigershark Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:31 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm Posts: 8139 Location: London	Well I would suggest that people check out the two reports I've finally finished. In essence left to my own devices I would change the plane to 1DC, 4+ save, range 30cm on the TK guns, points reduced to 150. Hell, I would consider reducing both varients to 125 (allowing the Tau to have a bigger airforce) if they had one hit only. This would allow all races a flak chance against the chaps, and mean you would be less gung ho with them (having only one hit). _________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com! 'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x
Top

CyberShadow	Post subject: Tigershark Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:27 pm
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9350 Location: Singapore	I am not wild about dropping them to 1DC, as I feel that it make over-compensate. I would like them to be a little frightening. However, I would like to hear opinions on all of these ideas. I do think that they could be reduced slightly, but I would like to take small steps. _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
Top

Honda

Post subject: Tigershark Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:22 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

In essence left to my own devices I would change the plane to 1DC, 4+ save, range 30cm on the TK guns, points reduced to 150. So what you are saying is that you don't want us to use these in our lists anymore.   I'm trying to be humorous, but really, what would be the point of taking them? Reducing them to the above level would just make them unattractive as an option. I'd rather not see the Tigersharks turned into the above. My two yen... _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Top

The_Real_Chris	Post subject: Tigershark Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:22 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm Posts: 8139 Location: London	Maybe a bit harsh I admit I was thinking of the eldar but on reflection they are a fighter bomber, more when I get back from wedding reception! _________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com! 'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x
Top

Lion in the Stars	Post subject: Tigershark Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:11 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:01 pm Posts: 1455	The IA3 fluff has one kill (not damage, not supress, kill) a Warhound in it's first pass.  It was a very rude surprise to the Imperials, and caused the Warhounds to withdraw rather than face another run. I would rather it be very scary and costed appropriately, than smacked hard with the Nerf Bat™. Am I completely misunderstanding the TK rules?  I thought that TK weapons only did one hit to a non-WE, so how is a formation of two putting 10+ BMs on a Russ company? (or am I getting confuzzled with the 40k WE rules again?) _________________ "For the Lion and the Emperor!"
Top

HecklerMD

Post subject: Tigershark Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:58 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:42 am Posts: 201

Quote (Lion in the Stars @ 27 Dec. 2005 (11:11)) The IA3 fluff has one kill (not damage, not supress, kill) a Warhound in it's first pass.  It was a very rude surprise to the Imperials, and caused the Warhounds to withdraw rather than face another run. It seems to me that the missiles take down the shields, then the 2x RC hit hard and some sort of pain/power feedback fries the brains of the crew.  The TS Pilot musta rolled 6s for everything , which can happen.  Not the sort of Crit we have in Epic, but close enough for me.  Unshielded WEs will still fear this plane. I would rather it be very scary and costed appropriately, than smacked hard with the Nerf Bat?. Yup. Am I completely misunderstanding the TK rules?  I thought that TK weapons only did one hit to a non-WE, so how is a formation of two putting 10+ BMs on a Russ company? (or am I getting confuzzled with the 40k WE rules again?)

I think he was using 2 formations of 1 TS each.  Each TS can do 4 AT shots of varying lethality, so 2 TS A-X-10s that hit with all their AT weps can place 10 BMs on a formation that fails all its saves.