Sentry Turret with Marker Light |
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Honda
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light  Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:01 am |
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I was reading through IA3 again and it occurred to me that I had not seen an entry for the ML version of the Sentry turret. Was this left off for a reason?
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Honda
"Remember Taros? We do"
- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:40 am |
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Good question ... or they just have not got around to it ?
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Tactica
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:13 am |
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Honda,
If its something that would fill a gap in the list, give us something to chew on by way of proposition!
Cheers,
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Rob
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:13 am |
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colonel_sponsz
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:35 pm |
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I think it was probably left off because there isn't an Epic model for it and the 40k version was released fairly recently.
Orde
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Honda
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:41 pm |
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I think it was probably left off because there isn't an Epic model for it and the 40k version was released fairly recently.
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Agree that it is fairly new, however, we Tau should be used to scratchbuilding or proxying for the Greater Good. ?
I'm currently thinking something along the lines of:
1. Contingent, unit of 6
2. Teleport
3. 75 points
4. Markerlight only
5. +5 save
6. Immobile
7. No FF or CC values
So, something cheap and expendable, for the express purpose of setting up picket lines or lighting up deep targets for follow on forces.
Thoughts?
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Honda
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clausewitz
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:28 pm |
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Hmm. 75 point, teleporting formation. Would this make a cheesy turn 3 objective grab possible?
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Steele
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:32 pm |
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| Quote (clausewitz @ 21 Nov. 2005 (15:28)) | | Hmm. ?75 point, teleporting formation. ?Would this make a cheesy turn 3 objective grab possible? |
We could them have a similar Rule like the Loners in the Tyranids Army. Contest - Yes , Claim - No
Cheers!
Steele
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:53 pm |
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Teleport is an interesting concept for the Towers ... 
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:19 pm |
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L4, thats how they deploy in fluff.
Honda, I think the objective grab is something to be mindful of. I see that there are four options:
1) They can claim and contest - but should be pointed appropriately. 75 points would be too cheap - no question. They would be used to force turn 4 or gurantee turn 3 victories while the enemy was stretched thin in objective grab modes.
2) You could use the OGM grot rule - they will claim an objective unless the enemy is nearby, in which case they will not contest. This still affords objective grab, but the enemy can easily take it away. This does not encourage the Tau player hold the unit back as they can't guarantee the enemy won't just move up and take it anyway. It also encourages the Tau player to use the model for what its meant for - sentry and marking early. I would try these out at 75 points for this ability plus markers.
3) Or there's the tyranid rule which is the opposite, they contest if the enemy is in the area, but will not claim. This encourages them to be held back in a nuisance role for 3rd turn as a trick. I like tricks. This probably does not encourage their use early on - which probably is not the way the unit should be used at all. This 'take the enemy's objective away' could become too useful of a trick for 75 points and could become a tactic people try to rely on to keep their own tau units in safety, draw the enemy out on turn 3 for objectives while tau cover the field in sentries - then engage on turn 4 while the enemy is in the open... ulghh... not something I'd recomend as its still too good for 75 points probably.
4) Or the flier rule, they don't claim or contest. This will encourage the model to be used for marking only. The enemy will only consider this a threat if they are going to enter the 30cm zoc, otherwise the'lly be ignored. This is probably too dumbed down and will afford limited uses - especially if there's nothing in the area with markers. Only 'marking' armies will use it and even then, they may favor mobile markers over these that drop in and sit. 75 points may be too expensive for this use actually.
======> Personally Honda, I like option 2) the best. i.e. They will work in full as you described, but only claim an objective in the absence of a contesting enemy. If an enemy is nearby, they will not contest at all. I'd give them a try that way and see them taking on a different role from the stealths and FWs.
======> Just my couple coin.
Cheers,
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Honda
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:58 pm |
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Well, I'm glad I asked the question, because you guys went places I wasn't even thinking of.
My personal preference is:
4) Or the flier rule, they don't claim or contest. This will encourage the model to be used for marking only. The enemy will only consider this a threat if they are going to enter the 30cm zoc, otherwise the'lly be ignored. This is probably too dumbed down and will afford limited uses - especially if there's nothing in the area with markers. Only 'marking' armies will use it and even then, they may favor mobile markers over these that drop in and sit. 75 points may be too expensive for this use actually.
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In which case I would favor a drop in points. Is 50 points a reasonable cost? Also, I think I didn't go the route of "objective" grab because I must have had the 40K rules fresh in my head, where they are not allowed as a scoring unit.
Therefore, I had already assumed that they wouldn't be able to grab anything (look Mah, no arms) .
While we're at it, would somebody care to cost out the other turrets as they are available in model form? I'm figuring whatever the gun cost is, as they are immobile, would not be able to contest objectives and would have teleport.
Gamers, sheesh! ?
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:45 pm |
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Honda,
If the only thing they do is teleport, mark, and have a ZOC... Hmm...
Well, question is how would you _abuse it_?
6 models =50... So for 300 points, I could have 6 formations or 36 units with 5cm gaps...
Well, I could use them as 'stall' formations to activate while the opponent goes through his activations... leaving me the whole end game to do my moves in a turn unabated... always a problem with too many cheap formations. "I'll activate the marker turrets, they'll go on overwatch"... 
From a ZOC headache, I could make seperate buffer zones in eliptical fashion around an objective, carefully placing the formations so that they are not interleaved. That way you either had to shoot or charge each one seperately and had to deal with them in a painfully slow fashion even though they were just 300 points of junk.
OK, from the sheer marking perspective... so in one turn I could just teleport in 6 formations and cover the table with 36 mark units? A mark heavy army might be able to make good use of that. That might be too cheap actually.
50 for 6 models is not the right cost now that I think about it. Somebody will use these for something obnoxious even with no CC or FF value I'm sure if they only cost 50 points.
75 points is probably a better place to start 6 of them... at least the drones have a precident at this point cost... although, for what they do (no claim, can't move, no cc or ff, marker only...) I wonder if 75 is too expensive... better start them at 75 to be safe unless others have even more objections.
Personally, for marks only 150 points for 12 disposable 'lures' or nusance pieces, I'll be measuring that vs. the Stealths - and the stealths can move and claim. I'd always take the stealths over 12 immobile units in two formations I think... need to playtest, but just a gut feeling. Thus my point about option 2) over the other options.
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Honda
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:14 pm |
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Well, those are certainly interesting approaches for abuse.
I see this unit as helping in the following areas:
1. Portable ML
Obvious, but the idea would be to use the unit to stretch the engagement zone (note: this is not where you go to get married). I like the unit for this role because if you were deploying Stealths, then there'd be no decision about it, the opponent would scoot over and wipe them out. Now I'm out 275 points. However, with a unit as innocuous as this, the opponent has to think. "Do I dedicate resources to wiping out this piddly unit in case something ugly with GM shows up next move or do I continue to pursue my plan?". It would also allow us to contest artillery parks quickly or at a minimum perhaps move them out of their safe, secure snug hole.
In either case, I'm causing the other player to have to adjust their well thought out plan which I see as a good thing.
2. Picket (or Piquet)
I would think that this is a fairly effective unit for closing off parts of the board. I would expect it to facilitate or reinforce a refused flank. It could also set up a cordon for any vehicles with AA.
The onus would then be on the Tau player to use the MLs effectively and ensuring the enough GMs are present to take advantage of the opportunities. OTW, they'll just be another cheap special effect, without the music.
Based on your comments (Tac), I think 75 seems a reasonable cost. I also think that the fact that they don't cause any damage in and of themselves will probably limit people from going nuts with them. In your 300 point example, you'd be deciding whether to field a bunch of flashlights or a fully kitted out Hunter cadre.
Hmm...I'll see if I can put some together for my game this weekend and test them out against the bugs.
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:37 pm |
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Units out of coherency must be dropped (causing BMs, no less) or the formation must move to coherency. 0cm move means that you lose units. That means a picket line will be harder to do, requiring 2 lines for redundant coherency.
Still, double the line so at least 2 must be destroyed and you can cover just over 20cm frontage (5cm distance, 3x3 echelon formation, 5cm ZoC hanging off each end). 2 formations means you have blocked ~50cm until the enemy diverts the firepower or assault to deal with it. It would also have the option of much greater frontage at the expense of durability if the situation required it.
For an army that likes to be close without being assaulted, that seems extremely useful. I can think of multiple uses, both offensive and defensive, for a cheap teleporting screen. As Honda said, MLs and Picket, but don't forget cheap and easy crossfire.
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Post subject: Sentry Turret with Marker Light Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:49 pm |
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NH,
For an army that likes to be close without being assaulted, that seems extremely useful. I can think of multiple uses, both offensive and defensive, for a cheap teleporting screen. |
I think this is probably valid.
I like the idea of keeping them as no contest or control of objectives - it holds true with their fluff role of ... well... marking the enemy 
I just want to be sure the unit has some validity to role.
I agree that there's some defensive and offensive potential value that this formation could deliver without contesting or controlling objectives after reading both of your comments.
I do think 75 for 6 is better than 50 for 6 for this formation now as well. Drones establish a precident for us to build off of in this case.
These don't move and teleport. Drones can move and claim objectives/contest but can't teleport and they have a small gun.
I think we'll be OK at 75 points, but we need to make sure that they really do have some value and also make sure the no move, no combat, no shooting formation can not be abused - as funny as that may sound, there's always the 'gamey-gamers' out there.
I do think its an interesting suggesiton though Honda.
Put it to test and give us some feedback.
PS - I don't think 300 points, 4 activations and 24 models, worth of these things is out of the question in a 3K game, do you?
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