Has anybody heard of this manufacturer? |
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wargame_insomniac
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Post subject: Has anybody heard of this manufacturer?  Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:08 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:42 pm
Posts: 3305
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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Does anyone know of a distributor for them in UK? I had a look last night but could n't find anything on Alta Vista search engine.
I would like to see how expensive they were in UK. And maybe see some close up picture of some of minatures.
Cheers
James
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Heresiarch
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Post subject: Has anybody heard of this manufacturer? Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:07 pm |
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Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
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| Quote (Bombot @ 08 Nov. 2005 (13:08)) | | The only thing he?s doing wrong is calling stuff ?caos? though isn?t it? I don?t think GW own the trademarks for any of the rest of it. |
It's more than just the names when it comes to trademarks and copyrights. It's also the "feel" or look of things.
And yes, in the case of the Empire GW has borrowed a lot of historical appearances for their figs they could still claim that in the context of 28mm fantasy gaming they own the "look" in question.
A good example of copyright use in gaming is TSR's use of the Lucasfilm's ownership of the term "nazi" in relation to it's use in the Indiana Jones films. By itself the term isn't copyrightable but when used with a specific look... as it was in the films and RPG books... it does become able to be registered.
And given how much money GW would have in comparison to Game Zone even the threat of a lawsuit by GW would most likely put the company out of business as theres no way they could likely afford the legal bills to contest it.
And they have done exactly that in the past. Dreamforge Games produced some 28mm resin "Leviathans" that got them slapped with a C&D by GW.
http://www.dreamforge-games.com/id41.html
http://www.dreamforge-games.com/id43.html
Stylistically speaking Game Zone is very close to the edge of IP violations.
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primarch
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Post subject: Has anybody heard of this manufacturer? Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:59 pm |
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Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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Hi!
It will depend however on how IP laws work in the country this company is based in and how it is interpreted.
Of course, the main determinant will be the ability of the defendant to defend himself monetarily in court.
Primarch
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Lion in the Stars
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Post subject: Has anybody heard of this manufacturer? Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:32 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:01 pm
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Exactly. Hopefully GW won't hit them until after I can acquire some of those B-E-A-utiful minis. (esp. the chaotic ones!)
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Shinnentai
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Post subject: Has anybody heard of this manufacturer? Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:44 pm |
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Seems a shame that someone with such modelling talent is doing 'copycat' designs like that. I guess it'll net him more sales in the short-term, but I for one would be more interested in them offering innovative models that I couldn't get elsewhere. Seems they've fallen into the whole generic fantasy thing like a lot of writers seem to.
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Mojarn Piett
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Post subject: Has anybody heard of this manufacturer? Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:29 am |
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Dwarf Supreme
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Post subject: Has anybody heard of this manufacturer? Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:06 pm |
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Location: Canton, CT, USA
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I'm really not sure that GW can copyright the term "chaos." After all, Michael Moorcock wrote about Chaos in his books, before GW even existed. He even used the same symbol for chaos (eight arrows in a circle).
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Bombot
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Post subject: Has anybody heard of this manufacturer? Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:39 pm |
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Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:06 pm
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Location: Reading, UK
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| Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 10 Nov. 2005 (15:06)) | | I'm really not sure that GW can copyright the term "chaos." After all, Michael Moorcock wrote about Chaos in his books, before GW even existed. He even used the same symbol for chaos (eight arrows in a circle). |
I?m sad enough to have checked! Take a look:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/legal/copyrights/1/
They?ve even copywrited the 8-pointed star!
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Dwarf Supreme
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Post subject: Has anybody heard of this manufacturer? Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:46 pm |
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Location: Canton, CT, USA
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| Quote (Bombot @ 10 Nov. 2005 (17:39)) | | Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 10 Nov. 2005 (15:06)) | | I'm really not sure that GW can copyright the term "chaos." After all, Michael Moorcock wrote about Chaos in his books, before GW even existed. He even used the same symbol for chaos (eight arrows in a circle). |
I?m sad enough to have checked! ?Take a look:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/legal/copyrights/1/
They?ve even copywrited the 8-pointed star! |
How the heck to GW manage to get "chaos" and the chaos symbol copyrighted?  If I were Moorcock, I'd be pissed.
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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart
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Heresiarch
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Post subject: Has anybody heard of this manufacturer? Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:11 pm |
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Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
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| Quote (primarch @ 09 Nov. 2005 (14:59)) | | It will depend however on how IP laws work in the country this company is based in and how it is interpreted. |
I should probably mention here that I spent almost 4 years running the business side of licencing contracts for the company I used to work for in the 1990s and I still only have a nodding acquaintance with the legal interpretations of IP law. It's horribly complicated and a small manufacturer more than likely won't have the understanding of the complexities... or the money to defend themselves in court when puch comes to shove.
Here though, it would appear that he's based out of the EU so he'd be subject to all the international agreements on IP, Trademarks, Copyrights etc...
And given that GW has business units in pretty much each and every country in Western Europe they'd be able to file a local lawsuit without too much trouble at all.
And with regards to Mojarn's comment about trademarking or copyrighting likenesses... you have to remember it's applicable to a specific context. In this case it's 28mm Fantasy Miniatures with a specific look and background.
"The Empire" in and off itself isn't able to be registered as a blanket term but when you put it into the context of an evil space empire with a super weapon that looks like a small moon or a fantasy world with troops that look like they're from the Renaissance... then it's able to be registered.
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Heresiarch
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Post subject: Has anybody heard of this manufacturer? Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:13 pm |
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Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
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| Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 10 Nov. 2005 (10:46)) | | How the heck to GW manage to get "chaos" and the chaos symbol copyrighted? If I were Moorcock, I'd be pissed. |
Basically what it boils down to DS is Moorcock didn't copyright them so GW did... nice overview of the thing here:
http://homepage.mac.com/antallan/chaos.html
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Dwarf Supreme
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Post subject: Has anybody heard of this manufacturer? Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:24 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm
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Location: Canton, CT, USA
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| Quote (Heresiarch @ 10 Nov. 2005 (18:13)) | | Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 10 Nov. 2005 (10:46)) | | How the heck to GW manage to get "chaos" and the chaos symbol copyrighted? ? ?If I were Moorcock, I'd be pissed. |
Basically what it boils down to DS is Moorcock didn't copyright them so GW did... nice overview of the thing here:
http://homepage.mac.com/antallan/chaos.html |
Very interesting, Heresiarch. Nice of GW to copyright somebody else's ideas. It gives me another reason to dislike GW. 
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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart
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primarch
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Post subject: Has anybody heard of this manufacturer? Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:41 am |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
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Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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| Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 10 Nov. 2005 (10:06)) | | I'm really not sure that GW can copyright the term "chaos." After all, Michael Moorcock wrote about Chaos in his books, before GW even existed. He even used the same symbol for chaos (eight arrows in a circle). |
Hi!
You can CLAIM owning most anything. It doesnt become an issue until someone contests it.
If no one does you win by default.
Sad but true.
Primarch
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Dwarf Supreme
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Post subject: Has anybody heard of this manufacturer? Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:16 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm
Posts: 11149
Location: Canton, CT, USA
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| Quote (primarch @ 10 Nov. 2005 (23:41)) | | Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 10 Nov. 2005 (10:06)) | | I'm really not sure that GW can copyright the term "chaos." After all, Michael Moorcock wrote about Chaos in his books, before GW even existed. He even used the same symbol for chaos (eight arrows in a circle). |
Hi!
You can CLAIM owning most anything. It doesnt become an issue until someone contests it.
If no one does you win by default.
Sad but true.
Primarch |
Unfortunately, you're right, P. Kind of like all that classical music that was never copyrighted.
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