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BATREP: Tau vs IG, 2700 pts |
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| Honda |
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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas |
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I could have this wrong, you aren't implying that the Hydras moved over and then shot at the flyers are you? Because they cannot until the flyers move, in this case it would be when they left the table.
I neglected to take my rally rolls this turn, but no damage was done, except for the T-bolt, so I don?t think it had too great an effect.
Aircraft do not rally in the Rally Phase.
I?m not sold on the Armored cadre with IC+DF+FW combination. Before the game, I kept thinking that I?d be able to use the FW markerlights to enhance my seeker hits, when in reality, the FWs stayed buttoned up the entire game.
I agree a combination of Long Ranged Fire Support mixed with a Short Ranged Forces rarely makes for a good combination in the same formation. They end up trying to perform to very different operations at the same time effectively negating one part of formation for the enemy.
Also, I kept thinking that I?d be able to drop them near the Manticores, then call in missiles from the Scorpionfish to eliminate or reduce the artillery barrages. However, those nasty Hydras were always hanging around. So, although I think that I'll find a way to make the teleport pay off, having to drop them off at the beginning of the turn could be a very painful experience...especially when it's against someone where we aren't very likely to win the initiative.
I dunno never used is like lost points on the hoof, besides No Guts, No Glory
Well, six Hydra shots at 3+ and three at 4+ returns an average of 5 to 6 hits, with 5+ RA you could have survived it ( It also could have gotten real messy, but.....now you'll never know 
)Though you are very correct in assuming that timing the insertion is important, just try to think in terms of what you could achieve, against what you may lose. Often it will be a crap-shoot in the Stealths case.
Thanks for the report it was a good read, it doesn't look
like you did the IG wrong, except with your dice rolls (Gotta remember to flick that wrist just a bit more when releasing the dice, really)Jaldon
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Brave sir Robin, when danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled, Brave sir Robin.
| HecklerMD |
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Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:42 am Posts: 201 |
Not sure you can do that: 4.2 and if it passes set up the formation touching your own side?s table edge to show where it will enter play. Emphasis Mine. This seems to say that CAP units are off board and out of play untill they intercept, and the units are placed just to show where they will enter. Like I said above, I?m not sure how badly I botched up the IG, but when the Vultures failed to damage the big Hammerhead unit, that really hurt the IG?s chances for pulling this out. |
Not too much you can do there, you cant angle for a better than 2+ shot, and using these OS AT weps on the largest enemy AV formation makes sense. Blame that one all on the dice.
I think that is where the SM Termies become quite dangerous because once they've dropped them, there's a pretty good chance that they are going to go first.
Yup. Its not Teleport thats so dangerous, its Terminators, and all they come with.
Nice BatRep!
| Honda |
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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas |
Well, actually, that is what happened. I was under the impression that after the a/c got on board and had their attack, that they are still there till they exit, which would allow the Hydra's to move over and shoot. If I played that wrong, then... ?  Aircraft do not rally in the Rally Phase. |
I was referrring to the other units. Is that not supposed to happen? I thought the rules stated that you have to roll for each unit if it is not broken.
I dunno never used is like lost points on the hoof, besides No Guts, No Glory ? Well, six Hydra shots at 3+ and three at 4+ returns an average of 5 to 6 hits, with 5+ RA you could have survived it ( It also could have gotten real messy, but.....now you'll never know ?)
Well, in this case, it wasn't matter of being shy, it was the fact that dropping them also required units able to support them lighting up the Manticores, which I did not have.
So yes, I could have dropped them in and...hmmm, maybe set up a FF at a later point. Yes, now that you mention it, I could have played them better. Good point.
From HecklerMD
Not sure you can do that:
4.2
and if it passes set up the formation touching your own side?s table edge to show where it will enter play. Emphasis Mine.
This seems to say that CAP units are off board and out of play untill they intercept, and the units are placed just to show where they will enter.
I had thought about that as well, but I (don't have rules in front of me) thought that the Intercept mission allows you to intercept all missions. If a/c are unable to intercept those on CAP, then that pretty much makes them invulnerable to interception, which seems odd to me.
But I am interested in hearing how others play this. Good catch.
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Honda
"Remember Taros? We do"
- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241 |
LOL, I thought you were either playing this list against somebody else, or were planning on giving it to somebody to play against you. Map excersize is just as well. Thanks for posting results / findings. * Note: In the game, I mistakenly left off the support squads and fielded them as mounted in Chimera?s  |
So the garrison capable infantry co was really a mechanized formation in deployment, and had no support squads - that what you are saying?
No worries, chit happens - just trying to understand how the formation or upgrade was represented in the report.
The idea being, that I could use the ML from the FW?s to enhance the effect of the seekers from the hammerheads and the devilfish.
In my experience, HH to support a FW cadre has its uses, but the inverse doesn't appear to be true. In a mech FW cadre with fish, you anticipate the role of the formation to be close support infantry and the fish to support them, but the limited FP of the fish typically require some more meat to really do the job on the AT side to any degree. So HH and piranhas can give you a bit more teeth. The formation is still no replacement for quality AT solution if one is required.
A HH formation on the other hand has a main role of moving to deliver a decisive MBT type role to the field. having infantry with them can do the same injustice that infantry with IG Leman company does... the chimeras or in this case, the devilfish become a huge liability to the formation... now you have to avoid the losses of those fish otherwise your formation will be slowed to a crawl as infantry run along to keep up.
Markers only at 30cm range mean you struggle to get them to become effective with a formation that desires to sit back.
If you really are in need of a 30cm marker with this formation, I'd consider the Skyray upgrade before I considered FW's.
Also, I decided to try out the experimental ?teleport? Stealths, just to see what kind of effect they would have.
Cool - ditto. See other thread.
Now with all that detail, I will go to ?summary? mode before everyone falls asleep.
Confusious say, man with picture worth a thousand words
Turn 1 ?
The IG went first (after having played mostly SM, it?s nice to have a chance of going first).
First activation went to the T-bolts who went on CAP. The Tau countered by activating their Barracudas and intercepting. The Tau shot one T-bolt down and placed two BM?s.
And its good to see that you still went second! LOL
Once on CAP, you cannot be intercepted - you are simply 'ready' to counter enemy aircraft and that placement indicates where you will come on. That's my understanding anyway!
No turn 1 thunderbolt damage!
The Hydra unit activated and doubled over to where the Barracudas were, but only placed one BM.
When Barracudas exited I assume? Wow, hydras typically can do a number on fighters. 6x 5+ shots usually mean 2 hits, and the Barracudas save wouldn't likely protect them on exit... but assuming you jinked, at least 1 should have perished if all were rolled as odds. Well done!
IG unit 2 (the newly mechanized infantry group) triples over to the SW end of wood B. Tau unit D triples over to SW end of Hill 101. IG unit 1 fails activation, takes SC roll and triples to the NW, approx. 25 cm North of wood E. Tau unit E (Dragonfish) doubles behind wood B. IG unit 4 fails to activate. Unit 3 triples to SE of unit one.
IG unit that was newly mech answered my earlier question I think.
Note: IG weren't having the best turn 1 activations were they!
I neglected to take my rally rolls this turn, but no damage was done, except for the T-bolt, so I don?t think it had too great an effect.
If there were blast markers that were not removed, it can have a detrimental effect in the following turn... i.e. -1 to activate (combined with retain will take either of these forces to needing a 4+ to succeed!), engagement penalties, suppression of fire or of course, easier to break and thus take additional damage from further fire once broken.
I'm sure you are correct that it probably didn't have much of an impact, but be forwarned - it most definitely can have an impact, and practice makes perfect.
Turn 2 ?
Tau go first.
Tau unit B (HH+Swordfish), score 10 hits on Unit 3 (Leman Russ), kill 4 and place 5 BM. In retaliation, the LR fail and taking the cautious route, decide not to use the SC roll. So, LR?s shoot, score 4 hits, 1 kill, place 2 BM. Not a good deal.
Yay, Tau go first.
Help me out. First - "Wow!" 10 hits on 4+ RA should have resulted in 2.5 deaths or 3 deaths if odds were to your favor, 4 Lemans is really good stuff for the Tau... well done on the rolls!
OK I'm confused here. Now Let's see 10-tank formation, came under fire (+1 BM) then lost 4 tanks (+4 BM) and that left 6 tanks remaining with 5 BM... 1 away from breaking. You then say that the Lemans activated to sustain back at the HH formation, but failed. You then say that they did NOT use their SC reroll... so a failed initiative test means +1BM and must take a hold action if they don't break. Well, the Lemans
would have broken if you didn't use the SC reroll.
So I'm sure I'm just confuzzled, so help me out with what happened and where I'm going wrong in my summation of events that transpired at the begining of T2.
BTW: A marshal would have been in order for this formation if you ask me. I would have decided to shoot once at -1 and regroup the formation. A SC reroll would have definitely been warranted here IMHO. No IG player wants broken lemans!
NO, no... its worse!!! The IG Manticore hammers are correct... but its even a bigger hammer... they have DISRUPT! That means you would have came under fire (+1BM) then you would have caused 6 hits to the formation (+6BM for Disrupt!) then (+1 BM for the additional marker placed for a total of 8 BM placed in this case) Now you would have rolled for damage... no further blast markers are placed for damage due to disrupt fire. Since you lost 2 units and had 8 BM on that formation, that would have left you with 10 units in teh formation and 8 blastmarkers - 2 BM away from breaking... unless I've misunderstood something here. (Manticores are really uber ugly)
IG unit 6 sustains on Tau unit B (HH+Swordfish), scores 8 hits and quite unbelievably all 8 are saved, only placing 1 BM. This was just a little more than surprising, I really expected the Vultures to blow this unit out of the sky. Very tough break for the IG.
OK, now I'm sure the Tau had loaded dice at this point.
LOL, needing 4+ you saved 8 hits... LOL, where's the greater good charm! Well done on the dice... poor carcass god! LOL.
The T-bolt fails to activate, thus removing all BM?s. The Barracudas how ever are still looking for blood. They activate and swoop down on the IG Leman Russ (unit 3), scoring 3 hits, 1 kill and placing 2 BM?s. This breaks the Leman?s.
All IG players cringe! Broke Lemans!
Tau units operated, popping up to shoot and one advantage I hadn?t really thought about, but when we fail a roll, we an still pop up to hit something, whereas ground pounders may have their LOF blocked by terrain, thus missing out on shots.
True, the IG or other ground pounder armies have to make use of longer range toys, overwatch, and speed to counter the pop-up threat of the Eldar, Tau, and to a limite extend, IG. (thought I've witnessed very heavy skimmer IG forces in the past!)
I?m not sold on the Armored cadre with IC+DF+FW combination. Before the game, I kept thinking that I?d be able to use the FW markerlights to enhance my seeker hits, when in reality, the FWs stayed buttoned up the entire game.
Agreed, not the best combo.
Also, the clever among you will notice that I never deployed my Stealths.
Yeah, you surpised me here as you said you wanted to give them a go.
In turn two I was already to drop them on the board when I re-read the rules for teleport. Seeing that I had to place them before the new turn and not being assured of getting the first turn, I didn?t want to park them in front of a bunch of Hydras just to see them blown to pieces.
LOL - how Ironic, see my post in the Stealths thread... I tried it! No guts, no glory!
So I need to do a little more thinking on how to optimize the teleport capability. I know that I could have dropped them nearby either unit 1 or 2 to provide ML support, but for the most part, I had units that were able to do that already, so I didn?t see any real benefit to doing that.
Well, also they only have AP weapons, but in the case of artillery where there are only 3 models, sometimes a good blast marker for coming under fire is justified. Yeah, the AP can't hurt them, but the blast marker will 1) make it harder for them to activate, and 2) will silence one of the guns until he rallies, 3) with scout, you could put him in your ZOC and force him to take a move or engage action, 4) you could always assault with the Tau instead of fire... against most artillery - if left undefended - the stealths should have a chance at success... now if you end up with a blast marker from teleport (which odds are you will) that could put you at a -2 going into the combat, so that may not be the best scenerio typically, but something to consider (PS, tacically sound opponents won't leave their artillery undefended unless they are suckering you in or something... so probably a rare if negligable tactic to count on unless you can first dispatch whatever is guarding the artillery), 5) and finally, should you actually break some formations over there where your stealth are, they may serve as a good formation to keep the enemy within 30cm and hole them up on the rally attempts... granted, you have to figure out a way to keep your stealths alive long enough to do that with - so you have your challenges here as I found out. Nonetheless, its a trick and no sense in NOT using the formation - even if just to hold one of your own objectives so you can free up another formation that would otherwise hold some objective and limit its movment.
Also, I kept thinking that I?d be able to drop them near the Manticores, then call in missiles from the Scorpionfish to eliminate or reduce the artillery barrages. However, those nasty Hydras were always hanging around.
Heh - de ja vu (sp)...
So, although I think that I'll find a way to make the teleport pay off, having to drop them off at the beginning of the turn could be a very painful experience...especially when it's against someone where we aren't very likely to win the initiative.
I agree, it will take me more testing to figure out where the ability is best used. I think it has possibilities, but against quality opponents - its going to have less possibilities than I had hoped for. Still - a utility worth keeping in the tool belt I think.
I think that is where the SM Termies become quite dangerous because once they've dropped them, there's a pretty good chance that they are going to go first.
Not only do they have a good chance of going first, they can take a commander and call in two formations on the charge if need be, they also have more staying power, can damage AT and AP, and they can assault really well. They have light years on the fledgling tau stealth teleport proposition me thinks! That's not to say ours is useless, but the termy's teleporting are a much better proposition - that's without question IMHO. Eldar Swooping hawks can even fight better. To early to tell, but Stealths teleporing will prove far less of a threat in the end I think. Which is good actually. I think its very characterful for the formation.
So, looking forward to the next one, this was a good learning experience.
I?m going to work on a map of the moves to help clarify, what I am sure are a boatload of visualization questions.
Thanks for the batrep Honda, very helpful indeed.
