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Tau changes
Tactica	Post subject: Tau changes Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:06 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Cw, Tactica, I agree no stingray conttingent is necessary or desired. ?Plenty of AA in the Tau list already. I'm sure you meant Skyray not Stingray. ? _________________ Rob

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nealhunt	Post subject: Tau changes Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:14 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	I'm not sure, actually. Just as a point of comparison, if the contingent were twice the size and price of the upgrade as seems to be standard, that would be 8 for 200 points.  With an upgrade, that's 12 for 300 points. 12 GMs for 300 seems sort of wicked to me on its own.  Considering it in the context of a lack of AT firepower, it could potentially impact the character of the list. I don't have a conceptual objection, but I find it vaguely disconcerting. _________________ Neal
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clausewitz	Post subject: Tau changes Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:39 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm Posts: 916 Location: Glasgow, Scotland	Tactica, yes I meant Skyray (I got my rays crossed ). And I think Neal is suffering from it too.  I assume you are referring to Piranha formations rather than Stingrays? Assuming I am correct I agree it may be too many.  So can we not simply reduce them in number, or not allow extra Piranhas as an upgrade?
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Nerroth	Post subject: Tau changes Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:40 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm Posts: 573 Location: Canada	Regarding the Piranha, I feel that they work well with Tetras, a fast  formation capable of marking up formations and either sending in the Piranhas' missiles - or (my usual use for them) in conjunction with my beloved Stingrays... I wouldn't mind seeing the fusion blaster option though (just remember the Piranha would still have the gun drones, maybe a point increase would be in order?) Gary _________________ Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers v7.3 pdf Human armed forces for the greater good.
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nealhunt	Post subject: Tau changes Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:40 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	Yeah.  That was a reply to your question.  Tactica just slid his post in between. _________________ Neal
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Tactica	Post subject: Tau changes Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:41 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	NH, Topic A 1) If you follow the thread, Cw was talking about my Anti-Aircraft SkyRay comment I had previously made above, I think. Topic B 2) ?Base price of v4.1 Stingray Contingent (anti-personel vehicle) its currently 200 for 4 models (50 points model or unit) This has since been deemed too cheap. It remains too cheap from the perspective of other vehicles in the list. 3) The Stingray Contingent is changing to 250 for 4 models in v4.2 (62.5 points per model/unit) 4) The new Stingray Upgrade will be +2 = 125. (62.5 per model/unit) Therefore, 6 Stingrays in the future would = 375 as a result. EDIT: DOH - you guys are all online at the same time and responded to each other before I could even get this formatted - LOL, never mind! Cheers, _________________ Rob
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clausewitz	Post subject: Tau changes Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:48 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm Posts: 916 Location: Glasgow, Scotland	Yeah, that got confusing for a moment. Neal was talking about the proposed Piranha formations I believe. ?He was saying that 12 Piranhas for 300 points might be too good. ?I suggested that instead of 8 Piranhas for 200 and +4 for 100, that we reduce the formation size and/or remove the Piranha upgrade option.
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Tactica	Post subject: Tau changes Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:28 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	I don't want to offend anyone, but Pirahna's and Good seem like contradictory terms. OK, kidding aside, Gut feeling - reduce the base and offer a standard upgrade. Reasoning - It seems logical that formation type A could receive upgrade type A if a player wanted it... especially when other formations receive upgrade type A. Now... perhaps that gut feeling is just hunger pains... thoughts? _________________ Rob
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clausewitz	Post subject: Tau changes Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:52 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm Posts: 916 Location: Glasgow, Scotland	If adding a separate Piranha formation changes Piranhas into a useful unit that goes some way towards adding a small amount of AT to the Tau list; then it seems like a good idea to me.  Especially as it encourages the Tau AT to come from GMs, which seems in character to the army. Neal, was worried that a potential 12 shots @ AT 4+ (sustained fire and ML) for 300 points might be too good.  In which case I think that it is prudent to reduce the size.  6 for 175 with +4 for 100?
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Tactica	Post subject: Tau changes Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:02 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Well, just playing devils advocate here - because I don't really have an opinion to express on pirahna's... but the 12 shots @ 4+ would not be 300 points. You have to have at least one formation with marker lights affecting the target. What is the cheapest formation in our list with marker lights? Answer: 4x heavy drones @ 125 So at minimum, it would be 425 points on the field to pull this off.... and you can't buy either one of these formations without first buying a cadre, but that's just a prerequisite, not a points expenditure to get the relative effectiveness. So in the previous discussion context, one could argue that its 300 points for 12 5+ shots from sustained fire if I could see the target, or 12 4+ shots if I couldn't see the target, but had a 125 point unit within 30cm of the target. But, as I said - none of this is truely significant to me as the pirahna as built has not really been proven to be effective in the games I've witnessed. Perhaps this new playtest role will prove otherwise. Although I doubt it, perhaps I'll become a fan of the 6-10 pirahna formation. 6 base with +4 upgrade is reasonable place to start playtesting to me - unless there is significant concern of course. I'll include it in 'the proposed changes list' for people to review. Again, unless there's significant concern. cheers, _________________ Rob
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Icon-Of-Sin	Post subject: Tau changes Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:26 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:38 am Posts: 66 Location: Italy.	I'd really like to see a full Piranha formation, but a great fear is growing in my heart... That formation (12) will cost (money-wise) 54?!!! And anyone willing to give it a try will end having 18 Tetras!!! I think we need to pray ForgeWorld to sell Piranha-only packs! _________________ Eldar, Eldar ?ber Alles...
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Tactica	Post subject: Tau changes Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:47 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Icon, Cost of units, although a genuine concern, cannot drive a lists rules development IMHO. I think model packageing is something that should be taken into considering when developing unit sizes, but only from a reference perspective, not from a mandatory sizing perspective. Furthermore, nobody has to use the FW models if they wish to convert thier models for this particular unit/formation. Finally, your concern for real model monetary cost is actually addressed in the Tau WIP v4.2 list indirectly. The overall potential size of the list with upgrades was reduced for concern of a 12 pirahna squadron's overall effectiveness. So max size is actually 9 in the Tau WIPv4.2... also, keep in mind, nobody says you have to upgrade the size of your pirahna formation from base 6 units!! _________________ Rob
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clausewitz	Post subject: Tau changes Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:28 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm Posts: 916 Location: Glasgow, Scotland	Piranha Contingent is maximum size of 10 in 4.2 (6 base +4 upgrade).
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Honda	Post subject: Tau changes Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:27 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	Re: Size of Pirannha units 1. Also keep in mind "counts as". In a recent game, we fielded Tetra and coopted the Pirannhas as stand-ins because of how they are packaged. 2. If someone should buy beacoup Tetra/Pirannha packages, there might be others who would be interested in the Tetras. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Tactica	Post subject: Tau changes Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:52 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Cw, Your right... 10, not 9... that's what I get for typing fast.  LOL - thanks for correcting! _________________ Rob
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