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Epic infantry Released in Plastic

 Post subject: Epic infantry Released in Plastic
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 6:33 pm 
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Hi guys,

I have been giving the whole cost of GW minis some thought but I realized the other day how confusing GW's prices are.

When it comes right down to it, plastic is freakin cheap as hell, and sometimes the packaging can cost more that the contents (take food for example). ?Another cost increase is that these are manufactured and packaged in the US and UK, and not Taiwan or something. ?That alone can be a huge factor.

Then I realized something when I was thinking about buying Warhammer Fantasy. ?I am NOT paying full price, so I was hunting around for a deal, I was checking on what came in the box, and was kind of satisfied with the minis I was going to get.

I also checked into how I could expand on the Orcs and Empire armies, and couldn't believe it, although I should have expected it, when I found the Empire Regiments box set game with 8 hand gunners and 8 spearmen, WHEN YOU NEED AT LEAST 10 TO FORM THEIR OWN REGIMENTS! Wow, that's great.

Anyway, if you look at the contents in the Warhammer Fantasy set and break down what it would cost to get the contents individually, it is amazing:

Rulebook (At least $30 by itself)
Empire General (At least $10)
Two Empire Regiments (16 Handgunners, 16 Spearmen - $50 total)
Cannon ($20)
Ork Warboss (At least $10)
Ork Chariot ($25)
Ork Arrer Boys (At least $30)
Ork Boyz ($30)

Add a few more bucks for a box, templates, dice, terrain, and measuring sticks- actually I'll leave that out, so the total comes to about $205 USD. GW sells the Warhammer box set for $75.

GW DOES NOT GIVE OUT GREAT PRICE DEALS. ?As a matter of fact, a new army deal is simply the box set plus the army book, with no percentage off for getting everything bundled.

Now, is GW bending itself over and taking it in the ass just to get us into the hobby, or are they making a profit off of the box set as well? I can't imagine that there isn't some profit off of the sale of the box set, as it would really be stupid not to do that. ?Even if it were a small profit, it doesn't seem like GW to give great discounts.

So that leaves me to believe that GW poorly manages costs of operating, individual box sets are extremely expensive to produce, and maybe they are selling the main box set as a way to promote the sale of other items (expecting that you will buy a lot more), or they are just screwing us.

I mean, are 16 plastic Dark Eldar Warriors really worth $30? ?????? NO. ?So I buy them 20 of them for $11 on ebay. :p

That is my take on it.

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 Post subject: Epic infantry Released in Plastic
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:16 pm 
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Hi!

In my view the biggest "beef" I have with GW's pricing schemes is that sometimes prices are "game" related instead of the actual amount of raw resources or sculpting work involved in the miniatures you get in a blister.

For example, I remeber that a blister of 4 SM attack bikes cost the same as, say, a blister of 3 metal falcons. When you could probably melt the 4 attack bikes and make ONE metal falcon. Absurd.

When I do buy retail (almost never), I never mind the price as long as the "weight" of the product seems comensurate. I remember Dream Pod9's line of minis when they were the larger scale and I bought several of their real large heavy robots for use as Slann titans. They cost around 30-35 bucks, but those things are so damn big and heavy you could actually kill somebody with them. I my view worth every penny.

If I can get that same value from GW, I would not mind thier prices. Their plastics are, however, ridiculously priced, Viod is releasing 50 figures for 50 bucks and the warzone boxed set when it was out gave you EIGHTY figs, the rules and extras for 70 dollars. The quality is about the same (regardless of what GW seems to beleive regarding their quality), so they are indeed too pricy.

All this as it pertains to epic, will be an interesting thing to see, since, they are offering redone plastics for infantry, but we need to see what the price will be. If they offer sprues at 10 dollars like they did during the epic40k fiasco, then they do epic gamers no favors. If they can maintain them for 3.50 or less, then they are in business.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Epic infantry Released in Plastic
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 11:45 am 
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Quote (Gandalf the Grey @ 03 2003 June,18:33)
Someone said earlier in this thread

When it comes right down to it, plastic is freakin cheap as hell, and sometimes the packaging can cost more that the contents (take food for example). ?Another cost increase is that these are manufactured and packaged in the US and UK, and not Taiwan or something. ?That alone can be a huge factor.

Hi I feel I have to comment on this thread. Plastic material is relatively cheap. However In this case the controlling factor is not the material price but the casting method. I feel qualified to comment because I was production manager for a large toy company specialising in metal diecasting and plastic injection moulding for many years. The problem is that you cannot effectively pour plastics the properties of the material will not allow you to do it . The only way to effectively cast plastic is injection moulding at high pressures in heated moulds, which if you want highly detailed with undercuts etc means multipart sliding moulds. These do not come cheap either in manufacture, design or working life. the price is also affected by the high quality plastic that GW use. polythene, the soft bendy plastic that many manufacturers use ie Airfix and ESCI is much easier to cast  We as a company would not touch a product with a bargepole unless sales predictions began at a minimum of 10,000 shots. As the size of the castings gets smaller and finer the costs escalate as extracting the air and designing the fill of the mould becomes technically difficult.Based on my experience I would say that to convince GW to refurbish the existing moulds Jervis has done a great job. As to new figures he will be hard pushed to justify the expenditure required to convince GW to produce in plastic. The developement costs of metal moulds are way lower and production runs much smaller. the other side of the coin is material is more expensive. There is no "easy" way.  

       Bob DeAngelis


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 Post subject: Epic infantry Released in Plastic
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 12:05 pm 
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Cheers Bob for that, yeah one of the things I noticed when starting 40k was the difference in the plastic- it seemed tougher.....

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 Post subject: Epic infantry Released in Plastic
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 12:51 pm 
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Regarding what Primarch said:

In my view the biggest "beef" I have with GW's pricing schemes is that sometimes prices are "game" related instead of the actual amount of raw resources or sculpting work involved in the miniatures you get in a blister.


Yes, I know what you mean, and sometimes it is ridiculous- single special characters for 40k for ?9, but I can understand the logic sometimes- for example, the new Chaos Obliterrators, absoloutly superb models, sure they are expensive, but not many will be sold- not every Chaos general will want them, and even then they may only get one or two..... :-:

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 Post subject: Epic infantry Released in Plastic
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 3:11 pm 
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I dont' know how many of you have heard this, but there is mroe good model news from Jervis.

Jervis>> I'm ahead of you guys on this one: current plans are to re-release Jes's Phantom and Warlock Titans, and have a new Revenant Titan made that is closer to the old style.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/40kuniv....RCHIVE=

I'm ahead of you guys on this one: current plans are to re-release Jes's Phantom and Warlock Titans, and have a new Revenant Titan made that is closer to the old style.

Jervis Johnson
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...and there was much rejoicing.

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 Post subject: Epic infantry Released in Plastic
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 3:30 pm 
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Hi!

That is good news. The most recent eldar titans, IMO, were the ugliest of all epic titans, just as bad as the ork mega-gargant.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Epic infantry Released in Plastic
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:16 pm 
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...and there was much rejoicing.


Indeed... Excellent stuff, and great news about a new Revenant too!! -I don't agree that the newer Eldar titans were quite as bad as the Ork Mega-Gargant tho Primarch... :D

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 Post subject: Epic infantry Released in Plastic
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:26 am 
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Hurray!

This is GREAT news!

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 Post subject: Epic infantry Released in Plastic
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 1:41 am 
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Hi!

:D okay Stormseer, maybe that was too harsh comparing them to the mega-gargant, but they recent eldar titans are pretty horrid.

I'm glad that the older model and style will resurface, I alsways thought it to be an elegant looking titan.

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 Post subject: Epic infantry Released in Plastic
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 11:52 am 
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Quote (primarch @ 12 2003 June,15:30)
Hi!

That is good news. The most recent eldar titans, IMO, were the ugliest of all epic titans, just as bad as the ork mega-gargant.

Primarch

In case of the Orks it really doesn't matter as their stuff is SUPPOSED to be ugly. However, IMO the latest Gargant, eg. the angular one with the Gutbuster sticking out of it's belly deserves the title for the ugliest Ork thingy.

I really can't understand why they did it; maybe some concerned parent told them about the association of having a gun between the Gargant's legs... :laugh:

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 Post subject: Epic infantry Released in Plastic
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 2:15 pm 
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Hi!

I'll second that Mojarn, the newer Gargants are kind of cruddy. The original "modular" Gargant was by far the best in the series.

Overall I think all the "remakes" of the Titans were uglier than the ones that preceeded them. I'm not overly fond of the FW ones either.

Then again, for me, Beetlebacks are the epitome of coolness.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Epic infantry Released in Plastic
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 3:28 pm 
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Maybe I'm just a little odd, but...

I like all of the versions and think "the more the merrier."

I even like the Stormhammer Superheavy, which many people, including Jervis, appear to abhor.

Perhaps, my biggest criticism would be that the "tin can" Ork stuff such as Stompas and the old Mekboy Gargant don't look like they could move. They need slightly larger legs or tracked versions.

Of course, that's why I convert!  :D

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 Post subject: Epic infantry Released in Plastic
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 3:56 pm 
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I always thought the Gargants would look better (and be more "reasonable") if they had tracks like the Mega-Gargant. ?And I too think all versions of Titans (regardless the Race) are just an evolution of technology. The Mk.I's are going to look different the any other Mk. and I'm more forgiving with Alien stuff anyway. :D ? They are not Terrans so who knows what goes on in their "pointed-eared" or "green skinned" mind(s) ?! :laugh:

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 Post subject: Epic infantry Released in Plastic
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:32 pm 
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Maybe I'm just a little odd, but...

I like all of the versions and think "the more the merrier."


...A great sentiment, and I heartily agree with you Maksim, most Epic Titans are great, its just a few poor examples such as the Mega Gargant and newer Eldar Titans which stand out.

I even think that these can actually be made to look rather good with a nice paint job- for example the Mega Gargant in the back of Epic Mag #2 looks reasonable- far better than the original "comic book colours" pair that were painted for Titan Legions.... :D

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