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Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
Legion 4
 Post subject: Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:51 pm 
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As I said before, this may be Epic's "Swanson Song" ... After the release of F/Orks, sometime in the next few months (?) ??? , it may be a while before we see anything ... :{

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primarch
 Post subject: Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:55 pm 
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Quote (dafrca @ 12 2005 June,02:32)
Quote (primarch @ 11 2005 June,13:23)
Quote (dafrca @ 11 2005 June,02:14)
Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 10 2005 June,10:56)
Given this premise, does that mean that GW might keep epic even if the other SG games get canned?

History shows they have less of a chance of that then just dumping the whole thing out and starting over. ?:{

But of course one can hope. ?:;):

dafrca

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Unlikely. By Jervis own words the WHOLE SG division is about 5% of what GW makes (a far cry from nearly 10% from JUST epic back in the SM second edition days). So, even being optimistic and saying half that is due to epic, its peanuts compared to the take of 40k and warhammer.

The point is that if they can invest 1% in resources to make 5%, they'd do it. But the investment of resources and manpower to make those 5% is probably more than GW is willing to do at this moment.

Primarch

That may be how other businesses do things. GW has historicly shown they do not think like that. Their efforts have been more along the lines of: "If I do not make 15% in the first month of sales it is done for."

They have killed off many games quickly that seemed to be building support, just not fast enough for them.

But the bottom line is, we all see the signs. Death is near.

dafrca

Hi!

Which is why I mentioned in the other post about "placing the bar to high". They indeed have unrealistic goals. I agree that is initial sales for them arent astronomical they tend to can the product.

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:57 pm 
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Quote (dafrca @ 12 2005 June,02:39)
Quote (primarch @ 11 2005 June,13:31)
...GW should concentrate on MINIATURES, not rules.

I can not tell you how many times I have heard or read a GW person say something along the lines of...

"We are a miniature company that happens to have rules, not a rules company that makes miniatures."

I wish this were true, but it is clear they get way too hung up on their rules.

dafrca

Hi!

Well they seem to "get it" with 40k and warhammer where rulebooks only exsist to drive sales, but they cant seem to get the same with epic.

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:58 pm 
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Quote (Legion 4 @ 12 2005 June,11:51)
As I said before, this may be Epic's "Swanson Song" ... After the release of F/Orks, sometime in the next few months (?) ??? , it may be a while before we see anything ... :{

Hi!

True, but perhaps FW will save us.....  :)

Primarch

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:59 pm 
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We'll see ... but I ain't bet'n the farm on it ! :;):

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primarch
 Post subject: Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:03 pm 
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Hi!

Lets all chant...

FORGEWORLD, FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD, FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD, FORGEWORLD, FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,
FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,FORGEWORLD,

I hope they heard that.... :;):

Primarch

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dafrca
 Post subject: Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:41 pm 
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Or saw it. :;):

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Grimshawl
 Post subject: Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:40 pm 
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Just read thru this topic and unfortunately I have to agree, but one thing I dont understand is, GW has all of its own sales and history documented, why if they will only run with a game if it makes them Mad cash immediately do they even keep remaking Epic, their own records should show them about what they can expect, I mean I absolutely love this game, but if GW says to themselves, lets relaunch this game and if in the first 4months it doesnt make 15% of all our sales lets can it, cant they just look on their own past efforts and sales and go, this projection just doesnt work, ever,,,, You would think someone at GW would ether lower the barr or give up I mean why beat a dead horse.
I know that may have come acrrost as negative but I'm just saying for a company to invest all the resources into a game to revive it you would think they would either stay the course or at least have some idea of how sales should go, I mean if they made sales projections and Epic A far exceeded what they thought theyed sell, then even if the Game didnt make the 15% of the companies profits, you should be able to look at your own projections and say I Knew That was goona Happen. See what I mean?

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:17 pm 
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The role of Epic and the rest of SG is basically to provide a depth of experience.  They offer different interaction with the GW universe that can keep more experienced gamers involved.

I can say, for instance, that I have 2 40K armies primarily because I like Epic and the universe, but it's just so much easier to find a 40K game.

It's a similar concept to a "loss leader" in retail.

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Grimshawl
 Post subject: Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:56 pm 
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Nealhunt I see what your saying, but I am also involved in 40k and at least to me it seems like GWs policies dont match up with this view/policy, they tend not to take care of or try to retain their Veteran Gamers. Thats just my experiences and that of other people I know and talk to, but I think it is fairly acurate.
A seperate issue that bugs me is it seems like SGs are kept in a dark closet somewhere, or at least treated that way in America by GW, I mean not only are they not kept in the stores, but often they are not even advertised in stores. If you want your product to sell people need to be made aware of it, and I think GW  does a really poor job of this.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:04 pm 
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Grim, for 40k, keep in mind the target audience. GW doesn't want the veteran players, because they have already bought a ton of minis. GW wants the newbie teenagers who are starting from scratch in building armies.

As far as epic is concerned, I think GW's philosophy right now is to see how much profit it can make with as little investment as possible. Avoid the pitfall of applying logic to GW! ?:laugh: Also, I think GW views all SG games as ways of increasing 40k sales. There are few people like me who only play Epic and have never played 40k.




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Grimshawl
 Post subject: Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:51 pm 
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your right to warn me about applying Logic to GW, thats good advice, my head was throbing.
call me dull but I never have understood how anyone targeting an audience or demographic can adequately explain also trying to exclude or drive off other customers. Not specificly cater to I can understand, but actively try to drive off is something altogether.

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primarch
 Post subject: Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:04 pm 
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Quote (nealhunt @ 28 2005 June,11:17)
The role of Epic and the rest of SG is basically to provide a depth of experience. ?They offer different interaction with the GW universe that can keep more experienced gamers involved.

I can say, for instance, that I have 2 40K armies primarily because I like Epic and the universe, but it's just so much easier to find a 40K game.

It's a similar concept to a "loss leader" in retail.

Hi!

I agree with Neal. All non-core games are merely a portal to get people playing their more lucrative core games. Even if a game like epic doesnt make money on the level they desire, if it produces players who cross over to play core games it may be worth their while.

The more worthwhile question is ARE they getting such a crossover to make these ventures worthwhile?

I dont no the answer, but my gut tells me - NO.

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:08 pm 
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Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 28 2005 June,12:04)
Grim, for 40k, keep in mind the target audience. GW doesn't want the veteran players, because they have already bought a ton of minis. GW wants the newbie teenagers who are starting from scratch in building armies.

As far as epic is concerned, I think GW's philosophy right now is to see how much profit it can make with as little investment as possible. Avoid the pitfall of applying logic to GW! ?:laugh: Also, I think GW views all SG games as ways of increasing 40k sales. There are few people like me who only play Epic and have never played 40k.

Hi!

Correct!

SG = more players to port over to core games.

GW IS their core games. All is is just dressing to get people to play those.

Of course we could talk about WHY epic isnt a core game anymore.....

...but I gather you'll all heard the reasons more than enough time from me....  :;):

Primarch

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primarch
 Post subject: Desert Ferrin to fight the Marines
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:13 pm 
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Quote (Grimshawl @ 28 2005 June,12:51)
your right to warn me about applying Logic to GW, thats good advice, my head was throbing.
call me dull but I never have understood how anyone targeting an audience or demographic can adequately explain also trying to exclude or drive off other customers. Not specificly cater to I can understand, but actively try to drive off is something altogether.

Hi!

Thats easy.

Younger audience usually means less attention span, thus they drop out of the hobby after a short, but furious shopping spree they leave for something else. The cycle commences again with another newbie.

Older gamers who stick around a long time have lots of stuff, buy less, warn newbies about GW "scams" and are generally resistant to change (be it justified or not).

This is so true that I have seen GW propaganda to US store owners that specifically warns store owners to "disuade" veterans from hanging around the store. I wish I would have kept a copy of that. It speaks volumes of GW's market strategy.

So for GW it IS profitable to alienate a segment of their consumer base. Only time will tell if in the long run it was a good strategy or not.

Primarch

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