I only use commander if it is advantageous or needed to give a bigger chance to win a risky assault, it's not often nescessary to use but the ability to do combined assaults the chance to use it when nescessary is slightly greater with Ulthwe.
As for getting Farseers into Base to base for assaults, I've played 30+ games with E-UK Ulthwe in the last 3 months alone (8 at tournaments) and usually get Farseers into BtoB during assaults atleast twice in every game, most assaults they are involved in they will make it into BtoB.
They have a better chance of survival than Nobs/Assault Marines/Tacticals etc., it is far from suicidal to take advantage of their CC attacks.




Never find it too much of a problem keeping Guardians out of BtoB when I'm initiating an assault, I find it's easy to work out the counter charge range of opponents troops and mainly do assaults with mounted formations so their are usually 4 wave serpents to force counter charges onto them.
I agree that the Farseer is a very valuable unit but the main reason for keeping them alive is to summon the Avatar. With more of them in an Ulthwe army I often have and will keep taking the risk for the advantages they bring in assaults.

The results of a triple retain is often 3 of your opponents big formations are gone and with Hit and Run there usually isn't much nearby them to overly hurt your already activated formations ( though I do usually try to leave a formation for my opponent to counter atack/shoot so they leave my other un-activated formations alone).
Also a well practiced player would have also left BM's on a few enemy formations too, making it harder for them to counter (I often manage to break an extra formation or two from taking BM's for being in a psoition to support an engagement or atleast leave a few of them in effective for that turn).

Nobody is trying to say any view is irrelevant.
I've been against 1+ initiative on BG's since very early in development and have often posted about my concerns.

I stopped trying to get my view across when the reply "stick a BM on them and the problem is solved" came back roughly 2 years ago.

I knew I wasn't making in-roads and my view wasn't being taken seriously enough for my liking so I left the development alone.

I thought that if other players think "sticking a BM on a formation" makes any problems with them go away then they have solved 90% of all problematic units in the game, why are so many players wasting time trying to balance formations and units.
Terminators /Warhounds /Necrons /Tau etc.etc.etc. just stick a BM on any formation/unit other players are concerned about and the problem is gone.

No, they do have farsight, just no spirit stones.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Don't forget it's not just the triple retain that makes netea Ulthwe too good, it's that they can also rally their broken formations as easily as space marines can.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Also with strategy rating of 5 they have an advantage at tournaments of choosing (against all but other Str.Ra.5 armies) table sides, straight edge or corner deployment, forcing opponent into telelporting/summoning Avatar first etc.

well, given the overwhelming weight of opinion that Black Guardians are horribly broken, change them to init2+. Then check back in a couple of years and see how many people take them (yes yes, I know they're taken in EpicUK Ulthwe lists with init2+, but they also have access to Spirit Stones too). At the same time, why not make them SR4, if that's also so horribly broken? Then I can get busy stripping my Ulthwe and start painting them up as Biel Tan. I'm just amazed that I haven't heard a single peep on here for a couple of years about this and I'm completely perplexed by the sudden outpouring of angst about Ulthwe.

I do find the EpicUK players involvement in NetEA list development somewhat analogous to the Scottish Parliament though.

Heh, the Epic West Lothian Question.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

A lot of this discussion would be unneeded if people would just heed my advice from page 2. Supposedly everyone who has been posting here speaks from experience in playing with and/or against Ulthwe'. Regardless of your position, your words would carry a lot more weight if you could say "This is what the change in my game would have been if we had played with-".

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

oh, and while you're all busy nerfing a list I thought was relatively stable, any other EpicUK inspired issues you want to fix with this or any other Eldar list? I'd rather you get them all off your chest now so I don't have to worry about starting to play a list that a whole bunch of people that don't play it suddenly want to screw around with.

I know there's a huge beef with the huge number of special rules Eldar has, so perhaps we should get rid of Farsight, definitely Hit'n'Run and Lance could probably go to. Then we could look into costing the Avatar properly, as there are always lots of complaints about that. Then we can put it back to Developmental status and have a good old whinging free for all at it.

Well, hate to tell you that guardians can't buy spirit stones in Epic-UK lists.

well how about that. Spirit Stones only for vehicle formations. Good job I don't have any input into the EpicUK design process then, huh?

EpicUK Black Guardians are also 25pts cheaper than NetEA Black Guardians AND they can take wraith constructs AND are the only core formation for EpicUK Ulthwe AND in the NetEA Ulthwe list you can only take 1 BG unit for every 3 normal guardian units (rounding fractions up), so how about we forget about all the EpicUK Ulthwe based advice coming into the development of NetEA Ulthwe? Seems like that would make sense to me.