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Death Korps of Kreig
J0k3r
 Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:22 pm 
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Given the new forgeworld releases I think it would be cool to look at a variant IG list for the death korps of Krieg.  

** BEWARE BRAIN DUMP AHEAD**  :D

While they could be somewhat represented by Baran seigemaster the Baran list seems a little low tech and static for the DK. In my mind the list should feel very like a WW1 army with slow, lumbering armoured support, huge artillery bombardments and waves of foot slogging infantry.

The list could;

1) Have a number of superheavy vehicles including
-Reintroduction of old SHT variants such as storm blade and storm hammer
-Revamp Gorgon rules to put them in line with FW offering
-Introduce some new SH variants eg artillery or the Atlas conversion made by... ?Vanvlak?... (apologies if im wrong there!)

2) Modify the size of Infantry companies to make the modular unit fit into a gorgon.  The FW gorgon has the capacity to fit a platoon of 50 (ie 10 stands).  The question is should the IG company size be dropped to reflect such a platoon or should it be upped to 2 platoons of 10 stands each?  The second option would be more in line with WW1 company sizes (ok, its not 200-300 men, but it is bigger than dets tend to be in E:A).

3) Introduce static artillery along the lines of the FW Earthshaker and Manticore emplacements.  Perhaps a 3 unit infantry mortar could be intoduced; 10cm move and Griffon mortar stats.

6) Maybe stormtroors could be modified to be shorter ranged but carry more of a punch.  Thinking here of german stormtrooper tactics.  Maybe a flamethrower squad could be introduced too.

5) Strip out lighter armour such as SP arty, chimeras, hellhounds, griffons possibly even leman ruses.  Alternatively make leman ruses slower but have heavier armour to represent a seige variant.  Or have larger units of demolishers.  

-WHile the released sketches suggest that a new heavy tank variant may be in the works, id be keen to keep the list oriented around existing/oop models- unless someone could suggest a good heavy tank.

6) Introduce rules or a scenraio that allows opponents to buy trenches/fortifications.  After all whats the point of a line breaking army without trenches to storm!

Anyway, these are my thoughts.  Am i on the right track?  Does anyone have issue with the above or better ideas?  

Cheers!




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vanvlak
 Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:15 pm 
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(J0k3r @ Oct. 02 2006,22:22)
QUOTE

-Introduce some new SH variants eg artillery or the Atlas conversion made by... ?Vanvlak?... (apologies if im wrong there!)

Yep - mine.  :p
I like the feel of this.
A few questions/comments:
1 - massed troops needed, for the WW1 feel.
2 - which models would you use for troops?
3 - to keep things in character - restrict use of both IG and Imperial Navy fliers. Although an Overlord in support would be great.... sigh...  :;):
4 - Demolishers, rather than LRs; or Demolisher-Ragnaroks? A bit messy ruleswise perhaps. Or any of the FW hull-gun turretless Russ versions...
5 - what about Sentinels? although they are light, I'd like a Sentinel equivalent to a very small scale Knight Lancer.... a Sentinel with the rough rider hunting lance, perhaps souped up and with a flamer added.
6 - completely against the fluff, perhaps, but Knights would go well with these guys... or so I feel.

Nice idea, anyway, and very Epic too  :cool:

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:20 pm 
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Hmm aren't the Baran Siegemasters not supposed to be coming straigt from Krieg and to have the same wargear?
But else:

1) Looks good. Some kind of superheavy railroad-gun like the "Dora" would be cool :)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/d ... Modell.jpg

2) Ok.

3) Ok.

4) Give the Stormtroopers a heavy flamer instead of the 2 plasmarifles and call them Grenadiers intead :)

5) Hmm i would ceep only the FW-Gorgons and Demolishers. Longe range fire should only come from the artillery.

6.) Ok.

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:42 pm 
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-Introduce some new SH variants eg artillery or the Atlas conversion made by... ?Vanvlak?... (apologies if im wrong there!)

Yep - mine.  :p


Aha- glad i got that one right  :cool:

which models would you use for troops?

I guess the steel legion troops would be most approriate given that they have gas masks (i think).  

what about Sentinels? although they are light, I'd like a Sentinel equivalent to a very small scale Knight Lancer.... a Sentinel with the rough rider hunting lance, perhaps souped up and with a flamer added.

Good idea, though i dont think they would need lances as the DoK fluff has RR too.  

On the knights- sounds cool.  Perhaps could be introduced as an allied knight house ala emperors children list.  Anyone else have thoughts on knights?

to keep things in character - restrict use of both IG and Imperial Navy fliers.

Yup, they would need to go too.

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:45 pm 
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Some kind of superheavy railroad-gun like the "Dora" would be cool


Ooh, now theres a thought  :laugh:  
side note- anyone ever played Wolfenstein: Enemy territory?  Im sure thats the same railgun as was in that.  Cool to see level design based on RL!

4) Give the Stormtroopers a heavy flamer instead of the 2 plasmarifles and call them Grenadiers intead :)

5) Hmm i would ceep only the FW-Gorgons and Demolishers. Longe range fire should only come from the artillery.

Like both these ideas, keep em coming guys! :)

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:49 pm 
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Oh and the Baran vehicles and artillery should be included too :)

I see the DeathkorpsOfKrieg as something as a better equipped BaranSiegmaster army :)

btw: "Krieg" is german for "War".

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:11 pm 
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This is a great idea!


Here are my thoughts:


This would be a great chance to write a list which includes the ForgeWorld Epic vehicles:

- StormSword
- StormBlade
- Trojan Support Vehicle (For towing support platforms)
- Medusa
- Earthshaker Platform
- Chimera with Heavy Bolter / Heavy Flamer
- Hydra Platform
- Manticore Platform
- Salamander Command Vehicle
- Salamander Scout
- Destroyer Tank Hunter
- Thunderer SIEGE TANK
- Conqueror
- Executioner (Plasma Russ)

- Reaver with 3x Rocket Launchers (Great for anti-infantry sieges!)
- Reaver with Gatling, Volcano, Rocket
- The two FW Warhounds

- Maybe FW aircraft too.

Basically, as the Death Korps is a ForgeWorld army, why not write a FW-units list for them!



-Reintroduction of old SHT variants such as storm blade and storm hammer


There's two unused FW superheavies waiting for rules & points. :)


-Revamp Gorgon rules to put them in line with FW offering

Agreed, a great opertunity to bring back the Gorgon.

-Introduce some new SH variants eg artillery or the Atlas conversion made by... ?Vanvlak?... (apologies if im wrong there!)

Not so sure on this one, there's already so much that can go in the list that ForgeWorld themselves have made.


-WHile the released sketches suggest that a new heavy tank variant may be in the works, id be keen to keep the list oriented around existing/oop models- unless someone could suggest a good heavy tank.

Agreed. I think that there's plenty of materiel out there, and we know nothing about the FW Heavy MBT's yet or even which design will be chosen, so there's no point writing rules for them yet.

Oh and the Baran vehicles and artillery should be included too

Possibly, but I'd rather that the Baran vehicles stay within their own list... Krieg's vehicles are very different for the most part.

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:02 am 
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In the spirit of the above ive been playing with some cardboard and chimera track units to make something that is closer to the FW Gorgon.  

Still a long way to go, but as a beta see:



Also here is the same in comparison against a Stormblade SHT.  



The scale is actually quite comparable, however I think the FW Gorgons are actually BIGGER than SHT's.  Is this the case?  If so the best approach may be to cut up a pair of chimera track units and widen the body.  

Also apologies for crap card cutting skills- like i say a quick proof of concept  :)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:07 am 
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You'll find the Gorgons are bigger than the metal SHT's, they're more comparable in size to the FW super-heavy tanks.

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J0k3r
 Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:09 am 
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Whats the scale difference between the Metal and FW SHT's?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:25 am 
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I put together a theoretical force-organization, based on the standard IG structure but themed towards what we know of the Krieg so far (That's high-tech, well equipped & made by ForgeWorld!).

So, as a force organisation devoid of points or stats (Both of which may need modifying from the IG / Collector's values in order to fit with the Krieg, though assume stats will be pretty close to the printed ones for the most part)




DEATH KORPS OF KRIEG

Strategy Rating - 2
Inititive Rather 2+ (Titans 1+)




DEATH KORPS COMPANIES

Death Korps Infantry Company - 2x 10 Infantry stands.
Death Korps Mechanised Company - 2x 10 Infantry stands, plus Chimera Transports.
Death Korps Mounted Company - 12x Rough Rider Units.
Death Korps Tank Company - 10x Leman Russ Varients (Leman Russ, Conqueror, Executioner, Vanquisher, Destroyer, Thunderer - Pointed independently to account for utility).
Death Korps Super-Heavy Tank Company - 3x StormSwords or Stormblades.
Death Korps Self-propelled Artillery Company - 6x Medusa.




DEATH KORPS SUPPORT FORMATION (Two per Company)

Grenediers Platoon - 8x Storm Trooper Units (Optional Chimera Transports)
Death Korps Towed Artillery Battery - 3x Hydra, Earthshaker or Manticore platforms, plus optional Trojan transports.
Super-Heavy Tank Platoon - One StormSword or StormBlade.
Vulture Squadron - Four Vultures.
Salamander Scout Platoon - Four Salamander Scouts.



DEATH KORPS COMPANY UPGRADES (Three per company)

Fire Support Platoon - Four Thudd Guns.
Tank Squadron - Three Leman Russ Varients (Costed individually).
Hellhound Squadron - Three Hellhounds.
Attached Medusa - One Medusa.
Attached Platform - One Hydra, Earthshaker or Manticore platform, plus optional Trojan transport.
Salamander Command Vehicle - One Salamander.
Snipers - Two Ratling Snipers.
Ogryns - Two Ogryns.




WAR ENGINE BATTLEGROUPS

One Reaver Titan (Gatling, Volcano & Rocket Launcher) OR (3x Rocket Launcher).
One or Two Warhound Titans (Mega-Bolter & Plasma Cannon) OR (Inferno Gun & Turbo-Laser).
One Gorgon.



IMPERIAL NAVY AIRCRAFT

One Lightning
One Strike Lightning
One Marauder Destroyer



Notes:

- All Chimera Transports may be fitted with either a Multi-laser, a Heavy Bolter or a Heavy Flamer turret.

- Gorgon:
DC - 3
4+ RA save.
CC 6+
FF 4+
15cm speed
Walker
Transport (10 Infantry Units)
Two Twin-Linked Heavy-Stubbers ( Ap5+ 30cm)
Gorgon Mortars (4BP, One-shot, 30cm, Indirect)

- The Four types of Titan will be costed independently.

- Towed Artillery: If a Trojan is present, the artillery may be moved at the speed of the Trojan, but it may not fire on the turn it is moved.



As a force-organization (What's been included, what's been left out), what do ya'll think?



EDIT:

For Supreme Commander: Capitol Imperialis?





Whats the scale difference between the Metal and FW SHT's?


By eye I'd judge the FW ones to be about 30% larger.

It's possible that the SG ones are 1/500 (The same as the Titans) while the FW ones are definitely 1/300 (Standard Epic scale).

EDIT:






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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:45 am 
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I would drop all plasma-based tanks (so no Stormblade or Leman Russ Executioner). It doesn't fit the WW!-theme.

The Gorgon looks good but instead of ignoring dangerous terrain simply give it Walker.
And twinlinked Heavy Stubbers wouldn't be AP3+ they would be AP5+.
The GorgonMortars also should shoot 45cm (like the Griffons heavy mortar which shoots in 40k as far as mortars) or at least 15cm to reach 30cm with IndirectFire.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:58 am 
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I would drop all plasma-based tanks (so no Stormblade or Leman Russ Executioner). It doesn't fit the WW!-theme.


Ah but they're high-tech anacronistic WWI troopers, so they get muddy trenches, great coats, and plasma weapons. :)

IA: 1 gives an example paint scheme of an Executioner from the Krieg's 28th.



The Gorgon looks good but instead of ignoring dangerous terrain simply give it Walker.
And twinlinked Heavy Stubbers wouldn't be AP3+ they would be AP5+.

Edited.

The GorgonMortars also should shoot 45cm (like the Griffons heavy mortar which shoots in 40k as far as mortars) or at least 15cm to reach 30cm with IndirectFire.

They're sorter range than standard mortars I think. Modified up to 30cm.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:01 am 
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They're sorter range than standard mortars I think. Modified up to 30cm.


No. In Codex:ImperialGuard the Mortat shoots 48" indirect. Thats the same range as Lascannons, Autocannons, etc.
The Gorgon PDF from ForgeWorld states that the GorgonMortars shoot 48" indirect too.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:12 am 
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Ah, sorry, my mistake, thought it was 36" for some reason. Modified again, to gain Indirect.


EDIT:

This is such an awesome idea Jok3r! Mind if I try writing a full list for them with this FW-centric theme?




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