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does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression rules?

 Post subject: does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression rules?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:06 am 
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Hi

I can see that at some point there has been some suppression rules for netepic, http://www.netepic.org/EPICentre/Articl ... ession.php
does any one have the contents of those?

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 Post subject: Re: does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression ru
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 5:11 pm 
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I found a version of the text on archive.org

https://web.archive.org/web/20100516050 ... ession.php

Interesting reading and a concept that i feel is missing and always did in SM2. Can any of the old timers around here tell me what became of this idea and how these particular rules fared?

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 Post subject: Re: does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression ru
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:17 pm 
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alsted wrote:
I found a version of the text on archive.org

https://web.archive.org/web/20100516050 ... ession.php

Interesting reading and a concept that i feel is missing and always did in SM2. Can any of the old timers around here tell me what became of this idea and how these particular rules fared?

Best
Jens


Hi!

Wow, what find!

It was one of many ideas that got thrown around, but never got any traction.

You have to understand there was great resistance (if not outright animosity) towards anything with the "smell" of epic40k.

For many old hands such things were toxic/tainted and thus rejected out of hand.

Fast forward to the present though, its an idea worth visiting. :)

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression ru
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:07 pm 
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Thanks for the answer. I understand that any epic40k "taint" could open a can of worms. Ill run it past my local guys and see if any one is up for giving it a spin.
Btw, the rules that i dug up, seems similar to your heresy rules, is this a coincidence or because there is some common ancestry here?

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Jens


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 Post subject: Re: does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression ru
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:32 pm 
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Note for those interested: These rules was suggested by a guy "eivind.borgeteien" and they are also posted in Incoming #9.

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Jens


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 Post subject: Re: does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression ru
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:52 am 
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alsted wrote:
Thanks for the answer. I understand that any epic40k "taint" could open a can of worms. Ill run it past my local guys and see if any one is up for giving it a spin.
Btw, the rules that i dug up, seems similar to your heresy rules, is this a coincidence or because there is some common ancestry here?

Thanks
Jens


Hi!

Perhaps, although its long ago enough that the specifics are hard to remember.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression ru
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:57 pm 
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primarch wrote:
Fast forward to the present though, its an idea worth visiting. :)


Please no.

There are already far too many new ideas swimming around, so much so that the pool is close to all the water leaping out to accommodate them. Suppression is one of the major aspects of the rules that I dislike about Epic 40K and EA, and I really do not want to see it brought into NetEpic in any guise.

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 Post subject: Re: does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression ru
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:54 pm 
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Irisado wrote:
Please no.

There are already far too many new ideas swimming around, so much so that the pool is close to all the water leaping out to accommodate them. Suppression is one of the major aspects of the rules that I dislike about Epic 40K and EA, and I really do not want to see it brought into NetEpic in any guise.


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 Post subject: Re: does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression ru
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:12 pm 
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Irisado wrote:
primarch wrote:
Fast forward to the present though, its an idea worth visiting. :)


Please no.

There are already far too many new ideas swimming around, so much so that the pool is close to all the water leaping out to accommodate them. Suppression is one of the major aspects of the rules that I dislike about Epic 40K and EA, and I really do not want to see it brought into NetEpic in any guise.



Fair enough, but please clarify to me, is it:

1. Suppression as a rule concept that drives the main aspects of the game (EA as I understand it).
2. Suppression as the concept of binding the enemy with fire to hinder him movement, fire and/or other operations.

I can understand 1 from the amount of ill will generated during change to E40K/EA , but 2 seems so logical to me since it enables fire and movement as a viable tactic.

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Jens


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 Post subject: Re: does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression ru
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:42 pm 
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alsted wrote:
Irisado wrote:
primarch wrote:
Fast forward to the present though, its an idea worth visiting. :)


Please no.

There are already far too many new ideas swimming around, so much so that the pool is close to all the water leaping out to accommodate them. Suppression is one of the major aspects of the rules that I dislike about Epic 40K and EA, and I really do not want to see it brought into NetEpic in any guise.



Fair enough, but please clarify to me, is it:

1. Suppression as a rule concept that drives the main aspects of the game (edit: Barrage Markers in EA).
2. Suppression as the concept of binding the enemy with fire to hinder him movement, fire and/or other operations, for as long the fire takes place.

I can understand 1 from the amount of ill will generated during change to E40K/EA , but 2 seems so logical to me since it enables fire and movement as a viable tactic.

Best
Jens


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 Post subject: Re: does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression ru
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:41 pm 
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Hi!

I would not include them in the core rules, however I like people to have options.

Having a separate file for people to use and add as they wish would be nice.

Too many things get lost over the years, I would like to preserve them at the Epicenter if only as curiosities.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression ru
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:48 pm 
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alsted wrote:
Fair enough, but please clarify to me, is it:

1. Suppression as a rule concept that drives the main aspects of the game (EA as I understand it).
2. Suppression as the concept of binding the enemy with fire to hinder him movement, fire and/or other operations.

I can understand 1 from the amount of ill will generated during change to E40K/EA , but 2 seems so logical to me since it enables fire and movement as a viable tactic.

Best
Jens



All of it.

It would add a tier of book keeping which I would rather not see introduced into the game. If players really like the concept of suppression in Epic, then they have the option of playing EA.

You can hinder movement in SM2 and Net Epic through tactical play. A rule is not required to achieve this effect.

Primarch: There are already so many optional rules floating around. Do we really need any more? I know that you like to say 'yes' to almost everything, and it's very generous of you. At some point, however, I do feel that a line has to be drawn. We cannot keep track of a seemingly endless set of optional/house rules.

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 Post subject: Re: does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression ru
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:01 pm 
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I'm confused, why would you need to keep track of any optional/house rules at all?

What Primarch seemingly wants to do is ensure that the option to create a more involved game is there to those with the will to try it, with minimal need for said people to reinvent the wheel.

You don't need to take heed of any of it if you don't want to, therefore everyone wins.


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 Post subject: Re: does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression ru
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:10 pm 
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Because if members are posting for help with optional rules, we (the community) need to be able to find them and to understand them to be able to assist. This means that they need to be kept track of, and the more of them there are, the more difficult this becomes.

There is also the issue of mixing up optional rules. There are a whole bunch of optional rules in the core rulebooks, for example. Do we continually keep adding optional rules to the core rules? NetEpic Gold would not have any optional rules added, so far as I am aware, but future versions being developed now could, and this could become very messy very quickly.

Trying to please everyone all of the time results in opaque rules, confusion, and, over time, makes it even more difficult to introduce new players to a game that really would benefit from more players getting involved. Let's suppose a new player comes along and wants to play NetEpic. What do we do? Do we point him/her to NetEpic Gold? Do we say, well actually that's going to be replaced by the new version which has lots more optional rules and new units? Do we mention Platinum? Do we mention the alternative rules? It's already complicated enough to explain without continuously adding more optional rules to keep track of.

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 Post subject: Re: does anyone know contents of the Net EPIC Suppression ru
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:29 am 
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There are people that would say that those of us who continue to perpetuate an obsolete game system like NetEpic Gold (or any variation thereon) are the ones making things harder for new players. They would say that we (the NEG players) should stop playing outdated rule systems and move over to Net Armageddon (or whatever it is called) so that there would then be only one rule system in place for new players to join into. This is a good and valid point.

Note that I am not one of the above people, as I play and perpetuate this obsolete game system when and as I can. Partly because I prefer it, and partly to give people choices. I believe that giving people choices is always the best option, as evidenced by my creation of a few. However, I also believe in a base structure on which to hang those options. I believe that NetEpic, being based on SM2, has just about the best balance of structure vs options. This is one reason I like it. [It is also why I prefer D&D3.5, but that is a different issue.]

I do not like suppression rules for a variety of reasons, and will not be using them. That said, I have no objection to them being allowed as an optional sub-system for NetEpic. If other people want to add those rules to their games, then that does not harm me in any way.

I disagree that every NetEpic player has to keep track of every optional sub-system out there. If someone asks a question that a specific player does not know the answer to, then that player does not have to try and answer it. It is perfectly reasonable to move on and let someone who does know the sub-system answer the question. I do that all the time with questions about Evolution. And Dark Eldar. I've never liked Dark Eldar.

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