1. I agree with this.

2. I would prefer a drop to 75pts. Why do #1 (removing the only non-25pt price in the list) if you're only going to introduce a new one? It feels clunky, and you don't actually get any practical discount at all unless you take two Land Raiders. Leave FF at 5+ if nessesary to preserve balance.

3. Is not a change to the previously posted draft document; I cannot see 75pt Vindicators as anything but categorically inferior to the Hunter (60cm AA in an AA starved army, or an AP shot in an army that typically Engages, rather than shoots at range?). With Land Raiders available for 75pts in UK tournaments, 75pt Vindicators look ever more silly. This needs to be 50pts.

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For the FF 4+ version, I would tend to agree.


So why make two changes (FF change, and price change) when you could just make one (price change) more elegant change?

I've been playing with the EpicUK version for a while now (FF5+, 75pts a pop) and they're fine, IMHO.

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1. is fine

2. I also like 25 point upgrades but 75 might be a cheap for a Land Raider, and i'm not a fan of FF5 for it either.

3. even with walker 75 points is to much, they need to be 50 points.

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With or without walker vindicators will never be a competitive choice at 75 points. Not when compared to a hunter or land raider.

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I don't see 75pts as too cheap.

Only Devastators and Terminators can purchase Land Raiders as an option.

Devastators give up a Rhino to get a Land Raider. It's established in other lists that's about a 10pt option. There's your 85 points.

Terminators give up Teleport which I'd put at being at least worth 10pts per stand, and would still require a heavy investment if used.

Morgan Vening

It makes sense to have Vindicators at 50pts each with Walker.

Stay with 25 point margins.

Keep Land Raiders at 75 points. I am yet to see them proved as too powerful at those points.

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Sure, why not.    



As others have said, keeping the FF at 5+ and having it cost 75 seems far more reasonable.  This is OK, but that would be better.  



And, again, as others have said - 75 points for a Vindicator is ridiculous, and no one will pay it.  50 points and Walker, I'd say.

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I'd prefer 75 points with the original 5+ FF too. This tank is well under-used due to cost vs effectiveness.

The only thing I see it meaning is Chaos LRs would go down in price due to no ATSKNF.

Depends on what value is placed on ATSKNF. As I mentioned above, even at the same 'price', Marines pay about 10pts more than Chaos for LR upgrades. And 50pts more for the formation.

If that's not sufficient (Edit: For Chaos LR), either keep them at 4+ FF, or given all the spiky bitz, make them a 5+ CC. But I don't think either are necessary.

Morgan Vening

Due to Rhino replacements, quite true.

Heck an ATSKNF Rhino might be worth 11 points.  

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1. About time (though I'd rename it to a free downgrade )

2. I'm not categorically against Land Raiders at 85, especially with FF4+ but the odd price sticks out like a sore thumb. Either make them cost 75 all the way or 100 for single and 175 for a pair if you insist that they have to cost more (you're wasting 15 points either way if you only have one).

3. Vindicators however are garbage at 75, Walker or no Walker. 50 or don't even bother. Or already give them Macmmmmmfffff *gets dragged away by men in black suits*

1. Agreed.
2. Should be 75pts and FF5+. The value of ATSKNF is countered by each army's own special abilities and available unit selections, so it really has no points value to my mind.
3. 50pts for Vindis. No walker.