Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 62 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Novice questions

 Post subject: Novice questions
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 2:56 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 11:33 am
Posts: 36
Location: segmentum solar
I've only recently got to the Epic, and yet to fully understand it's rules.
Now I have two questions, that seem most interesting:
1) by the teleporting rules, an entire formation can possibly be teleported to any place of the battlefield, and then attack. for example, CSM player has win strategy roll. he teleports terminators formation near his opponent's war engine, receiving 1 BM. than he summons deamons to that formation, making it 4 terminators and 7 lesser daemons unit. than he rolls 2+ to activate that formation, unsurprisingly gets success, and engages war engine with that combined formation. In quick firefight enemy's warengine is destroyed.

question is: how could his enemy possibly save his precious war engine? or there's no protection against such "go and hit" attacks?

2) about gameplay. I know about Vassal:Epic module, and I'm curious to know, is anybody here using it?

_________________
still newbie


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Novice questions
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 3:08 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 9476
Location: Worcester, MA
You place your teleporting units on the board before you roll for strategy. That's where the gamble comes in, if you loose they're probably going to be shot to pieces. Also, don't forget to roll a die for each unit, on a 1 the formation takes a BM. Just one of those could swing the assault resolution by 2 against you.




_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Novice questions
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 3:09 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:44 am
Posts: 553
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
You teleport at the start of the turn - before strategy rolls.

And it seems that lots of people are using Vassal:Epic here!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Novice questions
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 3:15 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Quote: (Guns_Linger @ 12 May 2009, 14:56 )

question is: how could his enemy possibly save his precious war engine? or there's no protection against such "go and hit" attacks?

First off, always remember that teleporting formations are placed BEFORE it's determined who is going first in a turn... so, if you've appeared in the middle of the enemy camp... and fail to go first, you're probably going to be shredded!

There are two primary defenses against such attacks:

1) Teleporters CANNOT be placed in enemy Zones of Control.  Using the extended Zone of Control of scouts units or simply forming 'shells/ring' of units around your war engines will create large areas the enemy can't appear in and allow you to protect vulnerable formations.

2) Even if the units don't physically move, overwatch fire is still triggered by any formation performing an Engage action; being in the midst of the enemy means that getting stuck in a crossfire situation is likely to happen, resulting in a depleted attacking force.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Novice questions
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 3:34 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 11:33 am
Posts: 36
Location: segmentum solar
At first, thanks to all of you for such rapid(and expanded) responses.

1) Ok, I got it - placing War Engine on a table without some other boyz flying around is certainly BAD idea. We either need scouts to recon all gaps, or just plain mobsters walking around to prevent immediate strike.
About teleport BEFORE strategy rolloff - I'ld remember that. However, sometimes there's certain difference with forces' strategy rating. So SM for example have more chances of making good in this trick against orks, as I see

2) If here's so many people playing Vassal:Epic here, as says vytzka, maybe it'ld be simplier for me to see(or participate in) battle of some more experienced players?




_________________
still newbie


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Novice questions
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 3:44 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:27 pm
Posts: 5588
Location: Bristol
Welcome to the forums! :smile: Hope you enjoy the game!

There was a thread of people talking about Vassal and arranging games - see here. I won't have time to try it till later on in the year, but I'm sure you can find opponents keen to play there.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Novice questions
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 3:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5569
Quote: (Guns_Linger @ 12 May 2009, 15:34 )

However, sometimes there's certain difference with forces' strategy rating. So SM for example have more chances of making good in this trick against orks, as I see

This is why Terminators are so hugely expensive.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Novice questions
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 12:04 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 11:33 am
Posts: 36
Location: segmentum solar
another couple of questions:
1) am I right, that it's possible and common for formations with transports to make engage following way: move transport, pack in the footsloggers, make ~whole move, disembark in 5cm, making BtB and work firefight/HtH? IE: 6 SM tacticals, 3 rhinos - move rhinos to take in the tacticals, move ~30cm, disembark, fight.

2) if so - what happens when some rhino is destroyed during the move(dang.terrain)?
I expect
  a) two tacticals in rhino make saves end disembark immediately
  b) as they do not have enough speed, engage is failed.

3) am I right, that formation without BM engaging formation with BM, automatically have +2 to result(+1 for "do not having BM" and +1 for "enemy has more BM than me")?

4) whole formation selects AP/AT at once? example: I have a pathfinder formation on devilfishes and FW formation on devilfishes. I pack FWs some ~60cm off target unit(SM tacticals with their rhinos) and make concentrated fire attack with pathfinders and FW, pathfinders markerlighting whole formation. FW's Fishes of course are blasting from afar with guided missiles for rhinos. Can I select AT option for pathfinder's fishes and AP option for pathfinders(to blast some angered tacticals before they engage me on their turn)?

5) especially Tau question - how one can markerlight formation afar to throw there some guided missiles from afar and not get himself killed in process, when we have 30cm markerlight range? use stealths?

6) just about all that rules - is there anywhere "quick reference" of some sorts? with engage modifyers table, shooting modifyers, terrain effects on units, orders and so on
just tired of running through PDF

again, great thanks to everybody who would answer that




_________________
still newbie


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Novice questions
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 12:35 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
Quote: (Guns_Linger @ 18 May 2009, 12:04 )

another couple of questions:
1) am I right, that it's possible and common for formations with transports to make engage following way: move transport, pack in the footsloggers, make ~whole move, disembark in 5cm, making BtB and work firefight/HtH? IE: 6 SM tacticals, 3 rhinos - move rhinos to take in the tacticals, move ~30cm, disembark, fight.
When making an assault, you only make a single move, and you can only embark or disembark once per move, not both. However you can start with the troops already mounted up in the transports ready to disembark at the end of the move. This is a good tactic for extending the assault range of infantry, but can run the considerable risk of the transports being shot before the troops disembark (by OW fire), which can toast the vehicle and the occupants.

2) if so - what happens when some rhino is destroyed during the move(dang.terrain)?
I expect
  a) two tacticals in rhino make saves end disembark immediately
  b) as they do not have enough speed, engage is failed.
The occupants make an armour save and if unarmoured they get a 6+ save. This occurrs at the end of movement, and if the occupants survive I believe they *do* get a disembark move of 5cm - but I cannot recollect this question being raised before. If not, then they will be in FF range anyway - and for marines that is the same as CC.

3) am I right, that formation without BM engaging formation with BM, automatically have +2 to result(+1 for "do not having BM" and +1 for "enemy has more BM than me")? Correct

4) whole formation selects AP/AT at once? example: I have a pathfinder formation on devilfishes and FW formation on devilfishes. I pack FWs some ~60cm off target unit(SM tacticals with their rhinos) and make concentrated fire attack with pathfinders and FW, pathfinders markerlighting whole formation. FW's Fishes of course are blasting from afar with guided missiles for rhinos. Can I select AT option for pathfinder's fishes and AP option for pathfinders(to blast some angered tacticals before they engage me on their turn)? When a formation shoots at a target, the Units fire with each weapon available to them, so you may elect to use some AT and other AP weapons for shooting.

5) especially Tau question - how one can markerlight formation afar to throw there some guided missiles from afar and not get himself killed in process, when we have 30cm markerlight range? use stealths? Basically you need to get in position first. However, you can upgrade mobile formations with ML capable troops - or use Tetra pathfinders - and retain with the support formation

6) just about all that rules - is there anywhere "quick reference" of some sorts? with engage modifyers table, shooting modifyers, terrain effects on units, orders and so on
just tired of running through PDF

again, great thanks to everybody who would answer that
There were some Quick reference sheets on the old SG site, but I am not sure about here.




_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Novice questions
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:48 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 1:15 pm
Posts: 50
Location: Oxford, UK
Quote: (Ginger @ 18 May 2009, 12:35 )

Quote: (Guns_Linger @ 18 May 2009, 12:04 )

another couple of questions:
1) am I right, that it's possible and common for formations with transports to make engage following way: move transport, pack in the footsloggers, make ~whole move, disembark in 5cm, making BtB and work firefight/HtH? IE: 6 SM tacticals, 3 rhinos - move rhinos to take in the tacticals, move ~30cm, disembark, fight.
When making an assault, you only make a single move, and you can only embark or disembark once per move, not both. However you can start with the troops already mounted up in the transports ready to disembark at the end of the move. This is a good tactic for extending the assault range of infantry, but can run the considerable risk of the transports being shot before the troops disembark (by OW fire), which can toast the vehicle and the occupants.

Perhaps I've read the rules wrong or there's an FAQ I'm missing - but doesn't the section on Transport Vehicles make it pretty clear that disembarking from a transport is part of a move?

To my mind, that would mean that one could not shoot the transports prior to disembarkation, as the move would not be complete until the troops had jumped out. Unless I'm missing something (Which is far from unlikely  :shutup: )

_________________
My Epic Ork Gallery


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Novice questions
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:03 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
Essentially you are correct that embarking / disembarking is part of a move (and indeed can be done as part of a counter-charge or consolidation), but disembarking happens after OW fire occurs. I have highlighted the relevant part from 1.7.5 Transport Vehicles
Transported units may disembark at the end of any move after the move in which is it was picked up. This happens after any overwatch shots (see 1.10) but before the moving formation shoots or assaults. Disembarking units may be placed within 5cms of the transport vehicle. If the formation has engage orders then they may be placed in base contact with an enemy unit. Otherwise they may not be placed within an enemy unit’s zone of control. Note that units do not have to disembark, and may remain in their transport if they prefer. Units may not be picked up and disembark as part of the same move, though a formation making multiple moves as part of a march or double action could pick up units in one move and drop them off as part of a subsequent move.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Novice questions
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:05 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 1:15 pm
Posts: 50
Location: Oxford, UK
Aha! Thanks very much. :)

_________________
My Epic Ork Gallery


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Novice questions
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:08 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 11:33 am
Posts: 36
Location: segmentum solar
embark or disembark once per move, not both

that's really the case.

This occurrs at the end of movement
I saw that vehicle must test difficult terrain(DT) as it enters DT. and if it fails, it's destroyed in place. So, probably, marines go out not at the end of the move, but "entering" DT.

OK, and also - very dumb question, I suppose... Are stands supposed to be moved flat forward, or can they "strafe"?

_________________
still newbie


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Novice questions
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:28 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
Ok, if you were to do a 'mounted' assault with the tacticals into a wood for example, you would take the DT test on entering the wood; so you could well be short of the target if the Rhino is destroyed on entering the woods. Indeed, if this happens leaving the occupants outside of 5cm from other units in the formation, then they could die to coherency rules (see 1.7.4)

On Embarking / disembarking, you can march or double, embarking as part of the first move, and disembarking at the end of the last move. But you cannot both embark and then disembark in the same, single move.

When moving stands around there is no penalty for turning etc, so in your terms, I believe you can 'strafe'

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Novice questions
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:33 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 11:33 am
Posts: 36
Location: segmentum solar
When moving stands around there is no penalty for turning etc, so in your terms, I believe you can 'strafe'

So for example one can move rhino X cm, than disembark at 5 cm, with stand turned 90 degree for additional Y(length of stand) cm?




_________________
still newbie


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 62 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net