Personally I'd go the other way and drop the Hammerhead cadre myself. But that's my opinion.

Having just read the list, you really don't want to hear what I think right now.

It certainly is not all bad (keeping the AMHC, FF still 5+, Scorpionfish still in the list, etc) but the few GLARING omissions render a lot of my Tau army obsolete and I simply will not allow that to happen here.

I'll take some time and read it again a few times. To be honest, I can see myself just making up my own list based on the discussions that predate this release. Hopefully this desire will pass and I'll just put up with this neutered list.

Multiple War Engine plane formations?
Morays banished?
Sentry Towers removed even though they are a FUNDAMENTAL part of how Tau do war.
Removal of the Gue'vesa?
Orca is still overgunned as per TRC's comments


It seems to me that there are going to be a lot of people who are going to come here and keep on repeating the same points that were made before this list. Hena's already proved that with the 1st post of the thread. My views haven't changed from my suggestions in previous threads either. I hope this thread does not turn into a "I would still like to see" repatition of previous threads. That has had limited effect for this list so why should it change anything in the future?

I want to hear all the secret justifications/reviews that we were promised but as an owner and player of a Tau army (I hope all the other reviewers can say the same thing) I am not making educated guesses or theoryhammering.

Sigh. I'm sure they'll be the inevitable comment of 'you've only just read it'. To be honest, it feels to my like it doesn't matter what I say.
I hope I'm wrong.

Steve.

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I think I asked this before, but the Crisis suits have:

Twin-linked Plasma Blasters

Which isn't a Tau weapon that I can find in any reference.

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Minor typo in that the AMHC has swordfish listed as an upgrade.

Well my guess is that the Plasma Rifles and Fusion Blasters are actually meant to be seperate weapons?
Plasma Rifle = 30cm AP4+
Fusion Blasters = 15cm MW4+

Minor typo in that the AMHC has swordfish listed as an upgrade.

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First off, yes there are some serious changes. I can see there are also some editing issues that we didn't catch, even though we thought we did. I want us to identify those as quickly as possible so that we can correct.

For example:

And the Manta still has Free Planetfall?

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

I noticed some very basic things from the 5.0 Peer Assessment thread.  First is the commonly shared belief that the Armored Cadre has no business being a core formation.  The second is that the expendable special rule is not really needed or desired.  

These have been echoed rather fervently throughout the YEARS of Tau list development and I'm a little surprised to find them still in place.  

I think removing the Human Auxilia was a smart move.  They were impossible to balance against Fire Warriors and unnecessarily complicated the list.  It also opens development for a Tau variant list involving more human elements which is what people have been complaining about for awhile.  Of course, the datafaxes for the humans need to be removed from the pdf.  Having them still as a part of the pdf is going to confuse people.

Same thing with the Vespids: the datafaxes still appear in the pdf but the army list does not mention them.  If Vespids are gone, the datafaxes must go too.

Hena's comments about the Supreme Commander and the Coordinated Fire have been mentioned for two years, maybe more.  Why is this still broken out in the list?  The whole thing can be resolved with a footnote in the Supreme Commander datafax.  One less paragraph to worry about.

The fact that you can fit the list on one page is a step in the right direction IMO.

Free Planetfall and Support Craft: these two rules obviously affect the Dark Eldar list as well.  While the removal of free planetfall won't cause any problems, the Support Craft change ripples to my Dark Eldar list and now we have two lists with the same rule, but different mechanics.  While it may be the always-popped-up method works, I have seen no more than 3 posted batreps indicating this (and I think only two).  Even a mini-batrep where the always-popped-up was compared against the previous support craft rule has not made an appearance.  Proponents post hours of text but can't spend 20 minutes to post pictures of their game when they tried the rule out?  That tells you something.  The only batreps I saw indicated two things about the always popped up rule:
*It was hinky
*It made nominal difference
While I've always pegged off the Tau list on this rule, I will no longer do so with the Dark Eldar until I see some actual evidence instead of the same three people screaming louder than everyone else.  

The datafax for Orbital Bombardments is chewed.  Combining multiple units into one datafax is a mistake and contrary to everything else in Epic.  One unit, one datafax.  In addition, it mentions Tracer Missiles but doesn't explain what to do with them, how they work, if they can hit multiple targets, etc.  Keep in mind the tracers were previously organized into salvos so that you couldn't lay down EIGHT BMs on the first volley from a spaceship.  That concept was never written down in any design notes and as such the purpose was lost.  Now the problem rears itself again.

I returned to the Tau threads only because I have a fella who is interested in bringing them to my tournament in May.  I don't want him disappointed that the list is disallowed after he went through all the effort of making his army.

EDIT: I just read Honda's comments about the parking lot.  An easy compromise is just to park them somewhere else (a sectioned off portion of the pdf, toward the bottom, with that same explanation is fine).

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Yes, it was actually a big part of the whole Air Caste thread that both of the Tigersharks were no longer WEs.  With the dropping of independent drone formations, there really is no reason for either TS to be a WE.


Okay - Let me just say I think this is a step in the right direction.  I like most of the changes and can say that I wish you had gone further to follow the suggestions in the peer review thread.

I was very pleased to see just one page of Special Rules, nice job.  I think as has been suggested it could go further.

I like the consolidated Recon Groups, that's a winner.  The Humans will be missed by some, but I know they will reappear in another list down the line.  Also, a fine choice in removing the Swordfish, Moray, and Sentry Turrets for now.  I am sure that was a difficult decision, but it will help the list and I am sure those units will appear again, if not in this list then some variant of it.  Unit selections are one place I would have preferred you follow the Peer suggestions more fully (ie, more simplification), but this is a good start.

Is the Manta still having 2x Railgun shots a typo also?  Dropping it to one shot was a big justification in it lowering to 700 points.

Also, I think it got lost in the shuffle, but the Orca was slated to lose its Seeker attack.

Good job, I will look to get a game in with it this weekend.

At first glance I agree with Shmitty.
Consolidation of units and rules seems plausible.
I note the up-ranged Guided missuiles, tempered by the revised ML / GM rule, also plausible.

Moray was always a sticking point, no doubt it will continue to be debated.

I presume the Tigershark notes were a hang-over. As Shmitty says, the discussions were on the premise of single DC a/c, not WE. Also, I presume the cost of 175 for a pair of TS is also a typo:- should be 275

Thanks for posting it now, as it gives us an outside chance of having someone test it in the FSA "sunday" event next weekend.

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Okay, this was mentioned in the "Peer Review" thread, and I'm pretty sure I've asked it before, but I don't recall an actual answer:

Why do Pathfinders have the option for free Devilfish?  It makes no sense to me.

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Yeah, but they don't *have* to take them, and there might be times when you don't want to mix Inf and AVs... and the Pathfinder upgrade has them on there as free as well...

Fire Warriors have to pay for their Devilfish, but the Pathfinders don't?  Why not the same cost for both?  And Devilfish are *FAR* superior to Rhinos!

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After some additional review of list and comments...
=============

Support Craft - As others noted, it's a rule, not a design note, and should be moved.

Tau SC - I agree with those that think this is unnecessary.  If Tau have one unit that can call a combined assault, who cares?  It's still not something they can use regularly or build a strategy around.

Recon Group - Is this 6 of one type, or mix and match?  The upgrade is labeled mix/match, but the formation doesn't say either way.

Kroot - This can be in with the other Upgrades to simplify the list, imho.  Even if someone figures out how to make a Kroot-heavy army work, I don't think it's a problem.

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Neal