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Black Templars V3.4

 Post subject: Black Templars V3.4
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:19 am 
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As some people were Talking about Templars in another thread I thought I'd post up the lastst version

Black Templars V3.4

and here's a refence sheet

Black Templar Ref Sheet

The changes from 3.3 are:
Emperor’s Champion is no longer inspiring as it enabled you have a formation with 2 inspiring characters so he's Fearless instead

Sword Breathren are CC 3+ not CC 4+ Extra attack +1

Last of all, the major change is (well not that major, you still end up spending the same amount of points on them if not more), I've changed the way you have to buy Crusader formations, instead of saying you have to have at least 1/3 of the army as crusaders, I structured the list to a more Guard style were you buy the formation and for each one you get two Crusade Detachments.
Also i'v expanded the fleet support section to contain the Spacecraft, Thunderhawk Transporter, Thunderhawk and Landing Craft in the same section, then left the 1/3 restriction there. (Thanks to TRC for his idea/input)

I've done this for several reasons, firstly it anoyed me that there were two 1/3 restrictions in the same list, it was awkward, another reason was i found myself selecting 1/3 of my army as the same 1000 points of Crusaders so instead of being the core of the list i was just getting them out of the way, I think this way feels and looks better, Crusader are the core of the army, which is what they should be.
 Lastly moving the Thunderhawks and the others, the main reason was to stop spamming lists of just thunderhawks and too reduce the amount of them you can take.

Thanks

P.S. I couldn't get to sleep so i did this, please give me a heads up about mistakes, i'm sleepy  :))

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 Post subject: Black Templars V3.4
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:23 am 
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Chapter seems a bit black and white (sorry :) ).

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 Post subject: Black Templars V3.4
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:25 am 
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Comments from players at the recent UK tournament was that they didn't understand/agree with there being no navy and titan support.

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 Post subject: Black Templars V3.4
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:40 am 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 07 Dec. 2008, 23:25 )

Comments from players at the recent UK tournament was that they didn't understand/agree with there being no navy and titan support.

I have to agree with that. For me part of the cool thing with playing Epic is so that you can use titans.




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 Post subject: Black Templars V3.4
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:50 am 
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You could probably do different language for the razorbacks upgrade.
Is it intended that you can have lots of razorbacks and rhinos and crusaders? Certainly it would ensure your formations never run out of transports.

I don't see the crusader and regular raider as being par. The crusader is worth a lot more - hell you can mechanise terminators with them for only 200 points. You might want to have a think about th relative worth of the two tanks to your chaps and cost them accordingly.

What stats are you using for vindicators? Having them for 50 each or 275 for 4 looks a little strange, but I guess the stats might influence that.

I still don't agree with E&c's assertion over the tornado. Certainly I think a formation of 5 is superior to a formation of predator destructors.

Your cas thunderhawk, call them rockets or whatever the navy does for the 30cm ranged attack?

Is there many uses for a 4 strong land raider crusader formation outside of an air assault? And do land raider formations need both the land raider and vindicator upgrades?

And a very dull point the sword brethern terminators can have their BL name but should still list '4 terminator units' as being in the formation or people will hunt for the new unit!

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 Post subject: Black Templars V3.4
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:55 am 
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Turbo lasers are now 60cm's on titans.

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 Post subject: Black Templars V3.4
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:14 am 
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Quote: (Hena @ 08 Dec. 2008, 07:04 )

Wouldn't you count the available slots and take rhinos if you need to take them with regular rules as well?

No idea! Probably needs to be said somewhere.

Personally I would say 'transport' means you can get as many rhinos as nessecery to transport the formation after upgrades as needed.

'tis my unit. I put the Hellfire on them mainly as the IA2 said they would have them. Balance wise the stats on navy rockets were good.


Can't remember offhand but don't vultures carry those rockets? If so shouldn't the namebe a bit different?

Chroma found them to be very nice in my early Scions list.

I note also that he agreed that they should be transports not independant formations :)

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 Post subject: Black Templars V3.4
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:30 pm 
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So changes:
Turbo Laser on Thunderhawk CAS should be 45cm instead of 60, yes most aircraft weapons do have less range.
Hellfire “missilesâ€Â

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 Post subject: Black Templars V3.4
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:39 pm 
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From the schedule thread:
=====

Quote: (Pulsar @ 07 Dec. 2008, 23:25 )

i really like the thunderhawk transporters in the list, i think they fit well

Can you expand on this comment?

From my perspective Thawk Transports are good for small, elite SM formations.  For any other kind of formation, Thawks or LCs are better.  BT seems to be about larger, less elite SM forces, so the Transports seem both out of place and very limited in application.

What do you use them for?  Sword Bretheren?  They seem like the only efficient use.

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 Post subject: Black Templars V3.4
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:40 pm 
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Quote: (Pulsar @ 08 Dec. 2008, 15:30 )

Should Black Templars have some kind of titan support in the list??

No its the character (challenge) of the list to play with larger formations and not titan.

Quick theoryhammer on the list has left me with two thoughts.

1) Close Support Thunderhawk, I would play with at least 2 of these per game as with 8 shots they are just great, brilliant, quite possibly too good.

2) Is it the intention to allow a 750pt formation of 6 Crusaders, 6 Neophytes and 12 Razorbacks? If so I might have to paint one of these armies.  :devil:

Tim

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 Post subject: Black Templars V3.4
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:04 pm 
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Quote: (nealhunt @ 08 Dec. 2008, 15:39 )

From the schedule thread:
=====

Quote: (Pulsar @ 07 Dec. 2008, 23:25 )

i really like the thunderhawk transporters in the list, i think they fit well

Can you expand on this comment?

From my perspective Thawk Transports are good for small, elite SM formations.  For any other kind of formation, Thawks or LCs are better.  BT seems to be about larger, less elite SM forces, so the Transports seem both out of place and very limited in application.

What do you use them for?  Sword Bretheren?  They seem like the only efficient use.

sure, yes i do at the moment ues them mostly to transport the elite things in the list such as 2 LR crusaders with different stuff in them. But i sometimes use them to transport 4 rhinos with a crusader formation with 2 neophites and character or 3 rhinos and a razorback.

I find thunderhawk transports a great way to add some much need out maneuvering tactics to the list.

yes BT are ment to have Hordeish tendencies but there still a strike force, they still don't want to waste resources on a target by using a large slow force when a small one going in quickly would do as good if not better job.

does that help?

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