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Overall Mission Statement

 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:59 pm 
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Let?s get right into it.

I see the Adeptus Mechanicus umbrella as containing the following distinct army lists:

- Adeptus Mechanicus Titan Legion
- Adeptus Mechanicus Planetary Defense Force (Skitarii Legion)
- Adeptus Mechanicus ?Knightworld? Force


I would also place them in that order of importance to Epic; Titans are one of the iconic staples of Epic, and whatever happens, the Titan-centric list should come first.

On a related note, I would consider my AMTL stewardship a failure if we produce an AMTL list that is balanced internally, yet we had failed to find a way to make some other configurations of titan balanced for use with other Imperial armies.



Of the three lists, there are some background challenges:

- The Titan Legions background will need a small amount of fleshing out, mostly this is all available from previous versions of Epic and shouldn?t be too hard to incorporate.
- The Skitarii Legion army list will require a moderate amount of new background, but again, it is fairly well established.
- Knights (As they were originally presented), on the other hand, in my opinion do not fit with today?s version of the 40k universe; ?Farm machinery copied from Exodite technology, later taken to war by a feudal society? will probably need a re-think.



A solid background that fits with the setting is just as important as having a balanced army list. Of the above three lists, Knights obviously need a minor re-jig? my first thought is that Knights could represent a half-way house between Titans and industrial machinery, that most of their time would be used on Forgeworlds in tending to industrial processes or even in helping to maintain the Titans, but that when called to war they would be refitted with offensive weapons and used as an auxiliary ?light Titan? menagerie. I would appreciate a discussion on this topic and will be opening a separate thread for its discussion.



---


So, the Titan-centric list will be coming first.

In my opinion, the AMTL 2.0 list had several failings, and although it has much that can be built upon, some aspects of the list will have to be discarded. This is inevitable if we want to split the list into three more focused lists in any case.



Firstly

My vision for the Titan-centric list is of a streamlined set of options; Whilst the AMTL 2.0 list had twenty-two different Titan weapons and six upgrade options, the prospective Titans list that I?ve been putting together has only fifteen weapon systems and three upgrade options. That isn?t to say that I?m intrinsically opposed to seeing more weapons / upgrades return later, but it does mean that we should be able to establish a modicum of balance fairly rapidly.



Secondly
I?ve kept a close watch over the various ?mounts?, ?barrels?, ?Titan sub-classes? and ?weapon class? systems that have been proposed over the last few months.

Almost every single one of these systems has been as an attempt to avoid assigning points costs to the various Titan weapons, and several of these systems have been very complex, moreso than the alternative option they were trying to avoid. With this in mind I intend to try using a Very Simple points cost system for the Titans.

I am not eternally wedded to this concept, but I would like to see it tested as it has not been tried before on a wide basis for this edition of Epic, and I believe that if we can make it work, it will provide more balance and more flavour to the Titan Legions.

?Standard Configuration? Titans will of course conform to the points costs we know and love.



Thirdly
After the usual initial flurry of theory-hammer updates, I will be incorporating updates to the army list(s) on a regular basis. Should I find myself unable to continue as army Champion for the Mechanicus armies for any reason, the ERC will step in and appoint a new army champion as a temporary / permanent replacement (Depending on the circumstance).

I do not want this important area of rules development to lie fallow for so long a second time, and if I?m not updating the list / keeping track of debates to your satisfaction, call me on it.



Finally
I recognize that assigning points costs to Titan weapons will be a controversial choice. Give it a chance and if you disagree with it in principle then please show me that the idea is broken either through theory or practice; As others have said my style of building an army list is consultative rather than dictatorial, so let?s see what we can create (Personally, I?m hoping for a Frankenstein?s monster that people will forever remember as a monstrous terror, but if we can?t manage that, a balanced army list should suffice).


- Ben S, Net:EA Adeptus Mechanicus Army Champion.

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:13 pm 
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Don't worry we will try and help as much as possible and its always good to know which way we are heading.

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:56 pm 
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Thanks for your incites, E&C. I for one approve of a point-based system for arming Titans. I'm looking forward to what you develop.

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 5:08 pm 
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I am glad to see attention given to the AMTL list and appreciate you stepping forward.

In regards to the background on the Knights, it would seem slightly out of character for a Knight like background to come from such a blue collar type of industry like working the forges in armor. Knights and nobility are more in keeping with land ownership, wealth and a life with time on your hands, while the lower classes do the work. There is certainly nothing sacred about the old background and it could use some work. However, in my opinion, it would be unfortunate to lose the character that exists in the old background. The thought that a new form of chivalric system might evolve at some point in the future, is a fun one. Ideas do circle around and maybe Knights, chivalry and family heraldry will become important again somewhere.

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:58 pm 
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Nobility derived their power from farmland because that was the base of economic power.  Control the food and you control the people.  I can easily see a nobility structure of Knights developing from control of factories if that is/was the main source of economic power.

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:34 pm 
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Hoi all, I realize it has been awhile since anyone last posted here, however I had a curiosity question regarding the background of the Knights...  Has anyone read the Horus Heresy book "Mechanicum" by Graham McNeill?  Knights are mentioned in it as being in Warrior Households (which are not quite on par with the individual Titan Legions but still respected) and the Knights solely armed for battle.

  Perhaps the technology for Knights predates the Imperium (ie the Dark Age of Technology.)  After all, doesn't the fluff for the Reaver Titan say that it predates the Imperium?  We might make a case for it originally being used in heavy operations (construction and the like) and converted long ago for use in war.  Although the Mechanicum might use some Knight chassis for work on the Titans and construction, these wouldn't be battle-ready models.

  IMO the most likely reason for using the "Knight" terminology would be from some Adept/researcher delving into Terra's past and digging up the "romanticized" version of Knights and applying those labels, and the accompanying heraldry, into existing or soon-to exist forces.  Thus creating the Warrior Households.

  Lastly, I do want to express my appreciation to all of you for working on keeping the Titan Legions (and Knight Households) List alive.  I have been collecting Titans semi-seriously since the end of the original Adeptus Titanicus.  My collection currently includes:  2xImperator Titans, 17xWarlord Titans, 3xReaver Titans, 4xWarhound Titans and 18xKnights (12xPaladins, 3xCrusaders and 3xCastellans.)  It will be nice to play with these..... provided I can find a decent opponent.  Oh, I also have most of a codex Space Marine chapter (mine, the Imperatus Filius) and a sizeable IG contingent.  Not all of which is put-together/painted.

   Respects.




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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:44 pm 
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Hello and welcome dasphynx!

Hoi all, I realize it has been awhile since anyone last posted here, however I had a curiosity question regarding the background of the Knights...  Has anyone read the Horus Heresy book "Mechanicum" by Graham McNeill?  Knights are mentioned in it as being in Warrior Households (which are not quite on par with the individual Titan Legions but still respected) and the Knights solely armed for battle.


I've read Mechanicum, and Paladin Knights do indeed feature very heavily.

You make some very good points, and I expect to run an update on the Knightworld army list soon that will take recent developments like Mechanicum into account.


PS: You mention you are looking for opponents; Where do you live? There are people from many different nations and cities on this board.

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:18 am 
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What if the knights were titan crew/pilots in training? A kind of steward or (forgotten the word!!!)...you know what i'm getting at!

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:17 pm 
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Quote: (Man of kent @ 21 Feb. 2009, 00:18 )

What if the knights were titan crew/pilots in training? A kind of steward or (forgotten the word!!!)...you know what i'm getting at!

All of the fluff that I have seen disagrees with that. Titan crew members are trained exclusively for that purpose, usually starting as a Cadet or Famulous.
Knights are members of a knightly order (which seem to have always been considered seperate from the Titan Legions).


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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:07 pm 
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Hoi all.

  E&C:  I live in Springfield, MA.  Interestingly enough someone who is fairly close to my locale contacted me through this place right quick after I posted.

  Kreiger:  I agree.  All the fluff I have ever seen (and the Mechanicum book) point towards the Knight's Warrior Households are completely separate from the Titan Legions.  All the Titans have crews and the Knights have but a single pilot.  If we had a list that combined Titan Legions and Knight Households then it might be conceivable to go from being a Knight pilot to a Warhound pilot (but probably not further, the mindset is too different for the heavier Titan "pilots" and crew.)  However, we have separate lists for Legions and Households so we would be better served with keeping them separate in the fluff we generate.

  Maybe we could place the current Knight Households on young/proto forgeworlds that don't have the infrastructure to support manufacturing Titans yet.  Or sent out as guards with expeditionary missions sent to reclaim lost technology/pioneers to found a new Forge World.....

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:04 am 
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Quote: (dasphynx @ 21 Feb. 2009, 22:07 )

  Maybe we could place the current Knight Households on young/proto forgeworlds that don't have the infrastructure to support manufacturing Titans yet.  Or sent out as guards with expeditionary missions sent to reclaim lost technology/pioneers to found a new Forge World.....

I seem to remember some old (AT1 or Space marine era, I think) which had knights being used by nobles on feudal worlds that had maintained some advanced tech from the Dark Age of Technology or the Age of Strife. Or maybe it was Feudal Worlds which had become vassal colonies of the Adeptus Mechanicus. I forget exactly what it was, but I remember the image of Knight Worlds being that of medieval times except the noble knights don't wear plate armor or ride horses, they wear/ride/operate Knights.


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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:35 am 
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Hoi all.

  Krieger, I remember something along those lines as well, but I don't remember it stating one way or the other who those knights were in fealty to.  I think they were trying to paint them with the same brush as the Eldar Exodite Knights (who rode dinosaur-like creatures, but functioned almost identically.)  However, I will check my old Titan Legion rulebooks in the near future and check on it.

  If these agrarian worlds are fluffed to be in fealty to a nearby Forge World (i.e. supporting them with food and raw materials) that might play fairly well while still keeping them available to be used by the Forge World Adepts/Warrior Households.  (Which is probably how I will structure my Knights (as allies to my Titan legions and without any "human" troops.)  An army solely consisting of greater and lesser God-Machines in support of my other armies (SM & IG))

  On a personal note, I would love to field everything I have in a MASSIVE battle!  A (nearly) full chapter of Space Marines, a Titan Legion and several IG regiments/brigade.  Gets me excited just thinking about it!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:59 pm 
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Quote: (dasphynx @ 21 Feb. 2009, 17:07 )

  E&C:  I live in Springfield, MA.  Interestingly enough someone who is fairly close to my locale contacted me through this place right quick after I posted.

Dang, you're right up 91 from me. I live near Hartford. Dave and I are holding a tournament in June, if you're interested.

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:24 am 
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Hoi all.

  Dwarf Supreme, yes I am interested.  Dave and I have already been trading emails on this subject, however I appreciate your chiming in on this.  It will be incentive for me to do some work on my armies.  Right now I have only very basic paint job on my Space Marines, not much done on my IG (a lot of inantry models not based yet) and most of my titans are unpainted.  Details, details.

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:21 am 
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Hoi all.

  I am reading through my old Titan Legions "Codex Titanicus" rulebook-entry on the Knights.  "The Knight Worlds supply the teeming forge worlds of the Adeptus Mechanicus with vital food and raw materials."  Another quote:  "When the Titan Legions march to war contingents from the Knight Worlds fight with them. Each noble family sends their own formation of armored warriors called a Knight Household.  These households vie with one another in acts of valor and heroism on the battlefield as well as spectacles of banners and individual heraldry emblazoned on each suit."  These quotes certainly show a superior/subordinate relationship between Titan Legions and Knight Households.  

  However, the example is also given, in "Mechanicum", of independent Knight "Warrior" Households.  This was on Mars though, a (THE) major forge world.  Perhaps some Knight forces remain of the major forge worlds and the rest are dispersed to protect the worlds supplying the forge worlds and, over the years, a shift in their identity (and how the view themselves) has emerged based on where they ended up.  Which would display itself in how the army is chosen.  On one hand; a Titan Legion with its accompanying subordinate Knight Households. And on the other; a (Knight) "Warrior" Household with its own Tech Guard.

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