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Necrons v4.4 thoughts

 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:08 pm 
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Ok, here are some of the changes I'm proposing for v4.4

Since I'm feeling a bit more comfortable about the big stuff, I want to try a few more things, but I'll run it by everyone first.

Give me feedback.

1.) ?Set Eques base cost to 375, reduce speed to 25cm

2.) ?Change Heavy Destroyer firepower to 1x AT 3+

3.) ?Added a Destroyer Lord. ?Stats are identical to a normal Lord. ?In fact the unit description is now Necron Lord/Destroyer Lord. ?This is to point out that Eques Lords are on the Destroyers.

4.) ?Removed Oblisk Recon as a support formation. ?Created a new "base" unit: ?Armored Phalanx. ?It's basically the Oblelisk Recon but no longer takes up one of your support choices.

4 1/2.) Considering shifting Destroyers and Pylons into being support formations for the Armored Phalanx. ?Just a thought.

5.) ?Created a Force Recon support formation. ?It's an All Wraith formation. ?It serves as a point filler formation, or can be beefed up into a fast moving close assault formation (like Assault Marines).

6.) ?Added the Jump Pack ability to Wraiths, since they phase through solid objects, and removing skimmer since they never seem to do any altitude, more of just hover along. ?Not to mention it's almost silly on a hand to hand assault unit with no Fire Fight ability.

7.) ?Considering a Substantial point increase and putting First Strike on Wraiths. ?Critters who can pop out of solid objects almost have to get the drop on you.

** forgot to mention the part about removing skimmer from Wraiths.

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:42 pm 
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1) Why? I don't think anyone thinks that normal destroyers are overpriced currently.

2) Agree with the idea of more expensive heavy destroyers, but they'll definately need a weapon increase to be worth it. Currently they're rubbish and not even worth it for free. I suggest 2x AT4+/AA6+.

3) Could potentially be confusing. I'd rather see this done as a note on the lord character "Note: Necron lords may only be added to Warrior, Flayed One or Destroyer units". It's a lot less ambiguous.

4) Disagree. Anything that increases the number of spare support slots encourages people to take more monoliths, and we're trying to avoid that, no?

5) Not a bad idea, though it is competing fairly heavily with  Venator formations in usage.

6) Jump pack is of little use to a unit that is already a skimmer.

7) Disagree, they'd become too expensive to bother with.

In general however, I think the next big thing to do with the list is to standardise everything to 25 point increments. It's always annoying to be left with 10 or 15 points left over at the end of building the list.

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:02 pm 
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3) Zombocom's suggestion sounds very good.

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:39 am 
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Corey, I've emailed my suggestions but on one particular point...

The regular Destroyers are already UNDERpriced for what you get.  Making them cheaper is like the Necron list committing suicide.

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:43 am 
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If you want whiny whining from non-necron player then here is little list...

1) Drop "Living Metal", there is nothing wrong in RA. And if further ooomph is needed, give them Invulnerable. And if pet-monolits are too fragile, give them WE status. If monolith gets shot by Volcano cannon, it should die. Normal rules have everything you need to make them as vulnerable or invulnerable you want without need to make unnecessary special rules.

2) Drop Pylon. It is so powerfull that it cant be made to work in epic. Leave it to "collector models".

3) If they phase out, make them stay out. Even better, make phase out like it is in 40K, if you lose enough formations, have WHOLE ARMY phase out and game is lost. In Epic it is strenght to be able to reposition your "broken" formation (and autorally it), in 40K phasing out is weakness (you kinda lose when it happens).


If by some miracle all that happens, then I could finally make necrons and not feel bad about it. But war does not need one player.

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:42 am 
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Pylons, in my experience, have really been paper tigers. They look awesome, they have nasty kill power at huge range... But they fall apart when someone looks at them funny because they tend to break fantastically easily (Shoot at them with two things. ANY two things, and they're broken). They're tougher to actually kill, but with one shot each they're really not very effective. Infact, in the entire game I think the only things that they're actually particularly specifically good against are super-heavy fliers like Thunderhawks. Against virtually anything else which has 2-3 units flying in a formation, they just can't kill things consistently enough to be worth while. (Last time I fielded one, it whiffed every attack all game and spent two turns broken! Some 'incredibly awesome finger of death' >.>).

Phase Out, with the current changes (No more auto-rally), makes it a lot less of an awesome power. Sure, you can potentially reposition them, but it's actually not as useful as it sounds, since there's a good chance (1/3  or so) that they'll stay broken another turn. And, remember, a phased out unit counts as destroyed for purposes of Victory Conditions. Break a BTS goal on turn 3 and you've got a victory condition locked up, even if you fail to wipe it out!

Living Metal I think is okay until you hit TK weapons. It makes good sense these things should be dramatically harder to kill with MW shots then even a land raider (After all, nothing gets multiple penetration dice against them, tank hunter bonuses, or ANYTHING else in 40K! And fluff-wise these things can stand up to darn near anything). But... When you hit TK-grade weapons the current Living Metal rules make them distinctively under-represented (especially as they are comparative to one another). My recommendation has been, and still is, to let TK weapons do multiple hits, but give normal+RA saves against them like everything else. Doesn't drastically reduce the power of Living Metal, and better (IMHO) represents the idea that the weapon isn't any weaker, the vehicle is just so durable it can potentially survive triple-damage from a Volcano Cannon.

Otherwise, this list looks reasonable. But I do agree, Heavy Destroyers DO need some revision if they're going to cost more. And 300 for Destroyers may be a tad under priced (Though I don't think they're THAT underpriced, but they are really really good at what they do).


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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:56 pm 
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Pylons don't shut down aircraft nearly as well as a blanket of Hydras from an Imperial player. ?I'd take the latter any day.

Nicodemus, in my experience and from reading the boards, the big complaints ?NEVER include living metal or Pylons. ?Ilushia is right that the Pylons are 'paper tigers'. ?Two of them is sure to cause a problem but then you've just invested 400 points in stationary units.





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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:26 pm 
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(Hena @ Jan. 28 2008,13:21)
QUOTE
So far, I've failed to see anything on Hydras that can cover the entire board. Usually they don't survive long enough to cover my table edge with enough AA to prevent Thunderhawks from entering the board. You need only 1 Pylon to do that. Flak system is completely broken when you give 120cm range to any AA weapon (never mind TK(d3)).

You should take a look at my "Murder of Monolith" battle reports... in 12 turns (3 games), I believe the Pylons fired *three* times...

They are *super* easy to suppress, often at least one (if using two or more) will have one Blast marker on them when they teleport in... they are far more of a scary "bluff" than a terrifyingly effective unit.

What's wrong with having to wait an activation or two before you bring in your flying assault?

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:37 pm 
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Pylons are a bluff.

Oh sure, you have a 50% chance of hitting, and if you hit a 60% chance of killing a Thunderhawk.  Ask me how often that's actually happened.

NEVER.  I know it's possible, but I've never seen, or even heard of it happening yet.

But the THREAT of it intimidates people.  Pylons represent a Psychological warfare tactic against your opponents.  I know when I play against Necron to ignore their threat.  At most I'll send in fighters or bombers on a single run to suppress them before bringing in a transport.

Living Metal has to cover not just RA, but also the same functions as Void Shields/Power Fields/Holofields.  You'll also notice that Living Metal WE also tend to have really nasty criticals.  C'tan are destroyed, and the bigger war engine criticals can wind up doing more damage to them than enemy fire does.

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:41 pm 
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the bigger war engine criticals can wind up doing more damage to them than enemy fire does.


Not a chance, the living metal WE gets all its saves against the critical hits, whilst anything in b2b takes MW attacks and tends to die...

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:46 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jan. 29 2008,10:41)
QUOTE
the bigger war engine criticals can wind up doing more damage to them than enemy fire does.


Not a chance, the living metal WE gets all its saves against the critical hits, whilst anything in b2b takes MW attacks and tends to die...

I beg to differ with you.

I have yet to field and Aeonic orb that didn't do far more damage to itself than anyone else managed.

Just ask Illushyia.  He shot one once and watched as the single wound he did turned to 4.

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:49 pm 
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Just ask Illushyia.  He shot one once and watched as the single wound he did turned to 4.


Astonishingly unlucky.

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 Post subject: Necrons v4.4 thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:56 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jan. 29 2008,10:49)
QUOTE
Just ask Illushyia. ?He shot one once and watched as the single wound he did turned to 4.


Astonishingly unlucky.

once is bad luck.

twice is coincidence

three times is Enemy action.

I've had it happen 4 games...  Every game I've used and Orb in.

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