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New Tau Units

 Post subject: Re: New Tau Units
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:22 pm 
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Are you more familiar with 7th or 8th ed?

7th ed Pulse Blastcannon is:
0-10" Two Str D AP1 shots.
11-20" Two Str 10 AP3 blast
21-30" Two Str 9 AP5 large blasts

8th ed Pulse Blastcannon is:
0-10" Two Str 14 AP-4 shots doing a flat 6 dmg.
11-20" Four Str 12 AP-2 shots doing a flat 3 dmg
21-30" Six Str 10 AP- shots doing 1 dmg

7th ed got to shoot twice if they go their anchors in (run away if you're within 10"! Or charge...), 8th ed ones now get +1 to hit.

Not sure what I think about the Remoras as light vehicle recon alternatives either, being easier to hide and having the same firepower as the recon group - if not better with 6 AT5+ missiles and three AP3+ shots for a unit of three since they will always be markerlit. Something the recon team has as a trade off between picking tetras for lights or piranhas for the guns.

In 40K, all tau vehicles can have multiple seekers, but those don't translate into multiple seekers in epic - just means they aren't single shot. I think the Remora either needs to lose a seeker shot or become single use.

I'd also be curious about knocking off the armour (so they die if flakked), reducing the unit size and making them more expensive but a flyer...


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 Post subject: Re: New Tau Units
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:13 am 
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What price tag would you put on this unit?

Ke'lshan KX139

Armour. CC. FF
WE 15cm 3+ 5+ 5+

2xTri-axis Ion Cannon 60cm 2x4+/AT4+ L OR MW4+ Tau


Nexus Missile Array 90cm 3x5+MW, GM

Deflector Shield, Walker , Damage Capacity 3, Critical Effect: Destroyed, any units within 5cm take a hit on a 6+


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 Post subject: Re: New Tau Units
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:31 pm 
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Ke’lshan XV25 Inf 20cm 5+ 6+ 5+ XV25 Burst cannon 15cm AP4+ , D ,
XV25 Fusion Blaster 15cm AT5+, L

Tau Deflector Shield, Scout, Markerlights, Tau Jetpacks, Teleport

Another unit , a slight variation from the XV15 , no first strike, but Deflector shields and a secondary weapon.
I’m thinking they ought to be slightly more expensive, maybe 275p for 6? Putting them at 45,83p compared to XV15 at 37,5


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 Post subject: Re: New Tau Units
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:46 pm 
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Cyguns wrote:
What price tag would you put on this unit?

Ke'lshan KX139

Armour. CC. FF
WE 15cm 3+ 5+ 5+

2xTri-axis Ion Cannon 60cm 2x4+/AT4+ L OR MW4+ Tau


Aren't Ion weapons also AP??

Cyguns wrote:
Ke’lshan XV25 Inf 20cm 5+ 6+ 5+ XV25 Burst cannon 15cm AP4+ , D ,
XV25 Fusion Blaster 15cm AT5+, L



Similar subject. AKAIK Tau Fusion Blasters are MW weapons...

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 Post subject: Re: New Tau Units
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:31 pm 
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Yes , a “P” got lost , it should read “AP4+/AT4+” OR MW4+, the fluff reads that Tri axis Ion cannons are among mounted on the KX-139s are among the most powerful weapons In the T’au arsenal, and that it can fire rapidly or charge up to a big ass boom shot, so maybe it should even have a TK(1) to top Riptides slightly.

Regarding the XV25s , the fluff reads , that around every third XV25 in the squad can be armed with Fusion Blasters, so, I thought you could keep MW away from them , and put it a 5+, to represent that the total onslaught of fusion blasters from the squad as a whole , is not so overwhelming.

In doing these things , I’ve kinda come to review the idea of the same weapon having different stats in the hands of different units, you can fluff around with, how many Butst cannons for example are blasting off when a squad of gun drones are bursting away with a twin linked version, verses four Hammerheads with a single mounted cannon etc. Battlesuits have inbuilt targeting systems , that could improve the performance of any given weapon type etc. So, perhaps it’s not so much of an issue at all really , that there are 3-4 different stat lines for burst cannons. What you think ?


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 Post subject: Re: New Tau Units
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:06 am 
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Cyguns wrote:

Regarding the XV25s , the fluff reads , that around every third XV25 in the squad can be armed with Fusion Blasters, so, I thought you could keep MW away from them


The same happens with Crisis Suits and they keep the MW (actually, it happens with many many units in Epic... i.e. Tactical Marines have a 45 cm Ap5+/At6+ shot, and only ONE marine on the stand has a missile launcher).

Cyguns wrote:
...., that there are 3-4 different stat lines for burst cannons. What you think ?


IMHO it's a very bad idea. I belong to the school of "same weapon name should have the same profile all across lists, armies and even factions", but do what works for you ;)

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 Post subject: Re: New Tau Units
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:26 pm 
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In a sense I agree, witch is why I pointed this out in the first place. But at the same time, I suppose it becomes a balance between how true to the fluff you feel you need to be , and the balancing of the units, it’s a fine line I guess.

But ok, let’s see,

I’ll change them up then , to this

XV25

Speed 20cm
Armour 5+
CC 6+
FF5+

XV25 Burst Cannon AP4+ , D
Fusion Blaster MW6+

Scout,Markerlights ,Teleport, T’au jet packs, T’au Deflector Shield , First Strike


The idea is to have them priced around 45,83

275p for 6 in a formation and as an upograde 2 for 100p

Would that be fair then ?


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 Post subject: Re: New Tau Units
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:03 pm 
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I think with the Crisis suits, there's the option that all the suits have a missile pod, plasma rifle and fusion blaster - or that there is a dedicated suit with multiple weapons and support systems to have a noticeable effect at epic scale.

A single fusion blaster in a stealth team is more like the special weapons in marine tacticals or IG infantry squads.

Also it gives the Ghostkeel more of a role in mixed stealth teams.


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 Post subject: Re: New Tau Units
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:37 am 
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If you haven’t already, do check out the “Ke’lshan Planetary Force” and let me know how you think it sits at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: New Tau Units
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:01 pm 
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Cyguns wrote:
In a sense I agree, witch is why I pointed this out in the first place. But at the same time, I suppose it becomes a balance between how true to the fluff you feel you need to be , and the balancing of the units, it’s a fine line I guess.

But ok, let’s see,

I’ll change them up then , to this

XV25

Speed 20cm
Armour 5+
CC 6+
FF5+

XV25 Burst Cannon AP4+ , D
Fusion Blaster MW6+

Scout,Markerlights ,Teleport, T’au jet packs, T’au Deflector Shield , First Strike


The idea is to have them priced around 45,83

275p for 6 in a formation and as an upograde 2 for 100p

Would that be fair then ?


I would drop the TDS. That has typically only been mounted on vehicles or aircraft and the XV25 is infantry, smaller than a crisis suit. I also didn't see anything in the fluff about them having a shield, they have armor and the holo shield. I'd stick with the RA 5+.

I'm a little mixed on this unit - from the Epic level of abstraction there's almost no difference between this and the traditional stealth suit. If these were in a list, I'd drop traditional stealth suits and maybe price these at 300, maybe even 325. It would need a lot of testing. I'm seeing 6 MW attacks that will drop to a 5+ because of the built in ML, and easily a 4+ if the suits teleport in and then sustain. The MW + built in ML is a powerful multiplier.

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 Post subject: Re: New Tau Units
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:14 pm 
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Following up on the burst cannon issues:


So I went in and looked into the BC issues and it looks like there's three types:

Burst Cannons w/Drones (Hammerheads and Piranha) AP5+
Silenced Burst Cannons (Stealth suits) AP5+, Disrupt
Twin Linked Burst Cannons (Fliers) AA6+

I assume they were developed this way to try and fit the 40k stats for different items. I'd like to try and limit any new stat lines to fit with these categories. The exception would be a ground based twin linked burst (hazard suits.) With twin linked, the value drops one, so I'd see those come in at AP4+.

For the stealth suits, I assume the D ties to the surprise of being fired on by camouflaged and silenced enemies, so that probably isn't the best trait for the Hazard suit.

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 Post subject: Re: New Tau Units
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:56 pm 
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I agree the XV25s MW is a quite powerful multiplier, and you make a good point on the deflector shield, RA would be better. On the Ke’lshan list they are not a stand alone formation however, your suggestion to drop XV15s entirely and replace them with a slightly edited version of them (remove TDS and put back RA) would as you say likely require a significant price increase to the formation. Witch is why I’ve opted to for now only allow a you to replace three XV15s with XV25s , this limits the MW shots to three , much like Ghostkeels on the Vior’la list.
Thanks for the input , it gives food for thought


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 Post subject: Re: New Tau Units
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:12 am 
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not to derive to much form the conversation at hand but I took a look at the tidewall system that the tau employs. Its basically a hovering fortification system. Has anyone floated(no pun intended) an idea about how to do this. I know the tide wall comes in pre fab sections and they can be linked together, but that problem of the system being able to move is something that I boggling me.

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 Post subject: Re: New Tau Units
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:02 am 
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Perhaps a slow moving armoured vehicle, with something like a broadside as the gun tower?
Something you can shoot, but you'd only do it because you have spare AT whilst it also prevents the garrison formation from rapidly redeploying. Though that would then really boost things like broadsides and sky rays in front line units - needing some special rule about this being the only upgrade a formation could take. Tau infantry being able to take some cover with them over open ground might be interesting, but I'm struggling to think what I'd drop in order to take it.

Honestly mine is just either used as an objective, or a garrison marker (with the gun turret being one of the broadsides).


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