Warp Rider wrote:
Rules issues:
- The Manta can carry a single Heavy Battlesuit. I cannot think of a single instance in which this would come up, maybe the Manta statline could be simplified by removing this.
- For the Guided Missile special rule, do targets benefit from being obscured by terrain. I.e. would a markerlit tank benefit from being hull-down? Presumably GMs can ignore LoF because they go over intervening terrain, so we played it as ignore's hull-down.
Thanks for the feedback WR! Since heavy suits take up 4 of the Manta's 20 slots, you should be able to fit 5 heavy suits into the Manta. The idea was for a larger formation to fit if you wanted to, but to restrict the ability to fit 2 formations. And I agree with your interpretation of the GM v hull down.
Warp Rider wrote:
The Y'Vahra:
- not worth the points, they overkill single targets and get easily overwhelmed
- 15cm range forces the Y'Vahra to get very close to enemies, but once there it is not very resilient and dies quickly in assaults
- main guns don't kill enough things to make them better than engaging, and doubling to get in range makes the main gun a 5+
- in FF/CC, they do get 3 swings each, but none of these swing benefit from the giant titan killer flame thrower
- 5+CC and 4+FF are insufficient for a unit that wants to be in your face
- ultimately, there is almost no reason to take this over a Riptide as they have the same stats but worse range and versatility
Proposed areas of improvement in order we deemed most useful for their intended role:
- give them better CC/FF stats
- give them better movement to reflect the improved Tau jetpacks they have in fluff
- make the EA a MW attack
- lower the main gun to a MW4+
I agree the Y'Vahra is probably the least versatile of the three heavy suits. The role is pretty clear to serve as a super heavy killer with the TK weapon, but the range definitely limits it.
It can already move 50cm with another 10cm after (jet packs) so I'm hesitant to make it faster. Doubling does push the shot up to a 5+, but as with all Tau, if your markerlights are positioned right, you'll be able to off set it and keep the 4+. It's important to me to make sure that while the list can hit harder than the 3rd sphere, it still relies on the same mechanics to make it function best, like MLs and coordinated fire.
With a 3+/5+ save, it can weather some fire, but it's not a terminator. The thick rear armor helps commit it w/o being concerned with crossfire. All that said, like most Tau, its not meant to thrive in engagements so I'm hesitant to improve the CC. A base formation is already putting out 9 shots FF at 4+ which I think is alright. We can try the extra FF as MW. I think that could help reinforce the front line roll without making it to overbearing.
Warp Rider wrote:
The Stormsurge:
- decent AT platform, but the Supremacy is already good at that
- I think I read earlier that there's been some discussion on the Stormsurge and the Supremacy competing for the same role
Proposed changes:
- drop the range on the main gun
- up the cost
- let them use their main missile battery (BP2 Disrupt, no indirect fire, maybe slow firing depending on points)
The intent of the SS is to provide long range heavy fire to the list. Combined with MLs, it can do real damage to a unit that finds itself in the open. The Supremacy is designed to fill different roles in the list, depending on what the list builder needs. I think the Supremacy and SS overlap only if you take the Heavy Rail Cannon. So to that extent, I'd agree (although there is the difference of TK and weight of fire
) But if you opt for the missiles or multidriver, the formations would be playing different roles of artillery or BP application, respectively.
As for adding more BP to the list, I don't think we'll go that way at this point. There was a lot of resistance giving Tau BP on the multidriver since this was a designed weakness in the 3rd sphere list. If anything, we'd probably look to consider additional single missile shots.
Warp Rider wrote:
Last thoughts:
It may have been brought up earlier, but why can the Shas'O not be taken in a Crisis Suit? Breachers are cool, but I'm a little confused why assets like the skyray and Shas'O can only be taken by them.
I hope our feedback on these things help! The game was very long (almost went 5 turns), and we covered a lot of ground.
Best,
WR
This was more for thematic purposes. 3rd sphere has the Shas'O locked into crisis suits. Here it's locked into the firewarriors.
If there's any changes you feel really should be in place, do a batrep with them and I'd be happy to look it over. There's a lot to sift through with list design so if I miss something or a lot of community if pulling for something, I want to see and hear and see what we can do with it.
Edit one of prior posts. I need to apologize, I went back and double checked the original R'varna stats. The do indeed have 4 shots at 3+/5+. My oversight and apologies to everyone who following my post. Hat tip to Captpiett for bringing that up to my attention.