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NEP Flier Rules

 Post subject: Re: What changes/improvements would you like to see in NEP?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:04 pm 
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Hi!

Thoughts on flier system for NEP (love that abreviation by the way Mattman! ;) ).

Magnus's idea sparked some interesting ideas which I have attempted to combine into a workable system.

In the past many systems were proposed, but most only made fliers more powerful, or the system had more bookkeeping than feasible.

My ideas are mainly to extend the ideas of "zones" which would require no bookkeeping, additional complex rules nor additional stats, etc.

First let us define the three orders that are distinct to fliers.

1. Strafe/bomb runs

The goal is to attack ground targets. Fliers on these orders will designate a target(s) of the strafe/bomb run when it is activated. You can use a die or any spare counter for this (or we'll just provide one). Fliers with this order will move in a straight line from its origin point to its intended target(s). Note the player could designate multiple targets that were more or less in a straight line of its projected bombing/strafing run.

The fliers with this order may fire its weapons at any point along its movement amongst the designated targets. Once the flier has reached the end point of its bombing/strafing run, if it has movement left remaining it may turn up to 90 degrees and leave the bomb/strafe run path to whatever path the player decides.

Elements without AA ability targets of the strafe/bomb run may return first only if they are on first fire orders, however they do so at a -2 to hit penalty. Non-AA elements may NOT fire at fliers unless they are targets of the strafe/bomb run.

Elements with the AA ability on first fire may "snap fire" at fliers with such orders with no penalty. Notes on interdiction zones below.

Dogfights and fliers on bomb/strafe runs.

Fliers on bomb/strafe orders are vulnerable to being intercepted by fliers on dogfight orders and receive to special defense against them.

However fliers on dogfight orders may provide "escort" to them if within range of their escort zone. Described under digfight orders.

2. Dogfight Orders

The purpose is air superiority and escorting.

A flier with dogfight orders may engage an enemy flier formation and precipitate dogfight combat.

Fliers on dogfight orders project an "escort/intercept" zone. This means that other fliers in this zone are "protected" from being engaged in dogfight combat as long as there are formations with elements on dogfight orders.

This means if a formation on bomb/strafe and Landing zone orders is within the intercept zone of a friendly formation on dogfight orders the attacker MUST engage that formation INSTEAD of the formation with strafe/bomb/landing zone orders.

Formations not within a friendly intercept zone may be engaged in dogfight combat. Also if the formation providing the friendly zone is destroyed or driven off, then attacker may attack other targets (since in effect the friendly zone is no longer in effect).

Fliers on dogfight orders may move or may take as many turns as desired.

Non-AA elements may never fire at fliers on dogfight orders.

AA elements may fire at fliers with dogfight orders normally.

Fliers on dogfight orders may not fire at ground targets.

3. Landing Zone orders

The purpose is to achieve insertion of elements carried into a desired landing zone.

Fliers with landing zone orders may move and turn as desired to the extent of their movement. At any point of their movement they may land the aircraft.

Upon landing. transported elements may disembark on charge or advance orders.

If carried elements can fly or have jump packs they may exit the flier at any point of movement.

Landed fliers may fire weapons as if on first fire orders to provide support.

A landed flier may not become airborne until one turn after the turn it landed (land one turn take off the next turn)

Fliers on landing zone orders may not fire at ground targets.

However they may fire at fliers that are incoming and attempting to engage in dogfight combat (and ONLY at fliers whom attempt to engage them)

Fliers on landing zone orders are flying in an evasive manner and deploying counter measures to avoid ground and AA fire, thus:

a. AA elements receive a -1 to hit penalty a flier on landing zone orders (unless ability counteracts this).
b. Non-AA elements may fire at fliers on landing zone orders if within 25cm of the flier with a -2 penalty to hit.

4. AA elements

An element with the AA ability projects an interdiction zone or a size according to its technology level:

a. primitive AA (Orks, PDF, etc): 35cm
b. Guided AA (Imperial guard, space marines, etc): 50cm
c. Advanced AA (eldar, necrons, etc): 75cm

The interdiction zone of an AA element is passive and is always "on", except if the AA element uses its weapons on ground targets the zone will be inactive for that turn. In other words AA elements must either "interdict" or fire on ground targets, it cannot do both in a same turn.

Interdiction zones cause flier movement cost to double while moving in the zone (or in other words the fliers remaining movement is HALVED while moving in the zone).

Interdiction zones do NOT stack when they overlap.

Fliers with landing zone orders CAN NOT land within the interdiction zone of an AA element (it must be neutralized prior to landing).

AA elements can fire according to their weapons and stats (no stat changes necessary).

Thoughts?

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: What changes/improvements would you like to see in NEP?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:56 pm 
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Hi!

Forgot the dogfight combat rules. ;)

Dogfight Combat.

These rules were suggested in the thread for net epic evolution. I have tried them out and found them to be quick, efficient and deadly.

I have modified them slightly, since I wanted to tweak the lethality a little.

Steps to follow:

1. Once flier formations are engaged dogfight combat ensues. Instead of the standard procedure used for ground units, the CAF stat will translate to the amount of total dice that element will roll in dogfight combat.

Thus an element with a CAF of 4 would roll 4 dice.

2. Roll the CAF dice for each flier element engaged in dogfight combat. Both formations (friend and foe) do the same.

3. Any die roll of "6" scores a "hit".

4. Each sides counts how many hits were scored on the die rolls and compares that number with the opponent.

5. Each hit cancels one of the opponents hits. Therefore the player with the most hits will assign those excess hits to the opponents flier elements

6. The player with the most hits will evenly assign excess hits to the flier elements. Each flier assign a hit is destroyed (no save).

If hit remain after all elements in a formation are lost, these excess hits are lost.

7. Once a round of dogfight combat is resolved, the player whom lost the most elements will roll for morale. If it is failed the flier formation will move it full move towards the owning players table edge.

8. If no player withdrawal or is totally eliminated. Continue additional dogfight rounds until one side is eliminated or has withdrawn.

There you have it. :)

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: What changes/improvements would you like to see in NEP?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:10 pm 
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If we are going to implement a proper dogfight order do we need a different combat system? Just making sure the fliers have an appropriate CAF value for their combat effectiveness should be enough.


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 Post subject: Re: What changes/improvements would you like to see in NEP?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:23 pm 
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Mattman wrote:
If we are going to implement a proper dogfight order do we need a different combat system? Just making sure the fliers have an appropriate CAF value for their combat effectiveness should be enough.


Hi!

Yes. As we go through them we can make sure the CAF values are appropriate.

Although I have used the Eldar and IG ones and they worked well enough.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: What changes/improvements would you like to see in NEP?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:36 pm 
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In general I like the rule idea the glaringly obvious over sight is landing troop ships not being able to assist the troops clearing out any enemy presence around the the landing zone. Imagine the scene from attack of the clones where the drop ships attack and assist to clear a place for the clones to land so they can rescue the captured Jedi. With that in mind I would like to add that drop ships cannot fire on ground targets with the exception of those fired upon by the units they were transporting that way an unmolested transport doesn't waste its firepower for the turn when it could have been helping secure the drop point.


A point for landing fliers in interdiction zones wouldn't it be more sensible instead of forbidding landings totally in an active interdiction zone to make them much more vulnerable if they try for example giving the AA gun +2 hit on landing craft would cover it meaning if someone really wants to try their luck the option is still there as it would be in reality just incredibly risky the landing craft is almost certain to be shot and is relying on armour.

I also think planes should get armor saves in dogfights but still have to take the morale check if they lose or it kinda defeats the purpose of armoring planes.


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 Post subject: Re: What changes/improvements would you like to see in NEP?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:54 pm 
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Primarch,

I think I've thought of problem in your new flyer system. I think Tyranids are really going to struggle with it their flyers are monsters not really like fighters and landers I think the Tyranids will be at quite a dsiadvantage with your current proposals.

I could be wrong it just occurred to me while I was doing something else it would be very hard to make this work for tyranids.


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 Post subject: Re: What changes/improvements would you like to see in NEP?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:45 pm 
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deanmon wrote:
Primarch,

I think I've thought of problem in your new flyer system. I think Tyranids are really going to struggle with it their flyers are monsters not really like fighters and landers I think the Tyranids will be at quite a dsiadvantage with your current proposals.

I could be wrong it just occurred to me while I was doing something else it would be very hard to make this work for tyranids.


Hi!

The only true flier is the Harridan. The only thing needed to make the harridan a truly formidable aerial opponent is include in its description that if it is carrying gargoyles those may "help" the harridan in dogfights.

This would make attacking a fully laden one in dogfights a bad idea. Much better to fire at it. ;D

I think this represents nicely the fluff of hordes of tyranids winged creatures swamping fliers. ;)

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: What changes/improvements would you like to see in NEP?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:51 pm 
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deanmon wrote:
In general I like the rule idea the glaringly obvious over sight is landing troop ships not being able to assist the troops clearing out any enemy presence around the the landing zone. Imagine the scene from attack of the clones where the drop ships attack and assist to clear a place for the clones to land so they can rescue the captured Jedi. With that in mind I would like to add that drop ships cannot fire on ground targets with the exception of those fired upon by the units they were transporting that way an unmolested transport doesn't waste its firepower for the turn when it could have been helping secure the drop point.


A point for landing fliers in interdiction zones wouldn't it be more sensible instead of forbidding landings totally in an active interdiction zone to make them much more vulnerable if they try for example giving the AA gun +2 hit on landing craft would cover it meaning if someone really wants to try their luck the option is still there as it would be in reality just incredibly risky the landing craft is almost certain to be shot and is relying on armour.

I also think planes should get armor saves in dogfights but still have to take the morale check if they lose or it kinda defeats the purpose of armoring planes.


Hi!

I thought about letting fliers land troops in interdiction zones, however I think its prone to abuse. Also given the use of a d6 any bonus would make landing any craft in an interdiction zone untenable.

The only way I could see this happen if instead of a bonus, permit AA guns to re-roll misses on any flier attempting to land in its zone. Risky, since it increases the chance of hits, but not impossible.

Adding armor saves to dogfights would increase the length of them significantly. Not necessarily a bad thing, but having tried the system without saves it makes for fast resolution.

Of course this does not take into account that dogfights (like close combat) is now repeated until a clear victory emerges.

So maybe a save is warranted. I will have to test this.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: What changes/improvements would you like to see in NEP?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:34 pm 
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I think Tyranids will have alot more flyers than that now there is the harpy/hive crone also what about the flyrant? or gargoyles? THere are also flying rippers and warriors if they get used.


Also did you consider adding that transports that have not fired during flying can add their shots to help the landing units clear the drop zone?


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 Post subject: Re: What changes/improvements would you like to see in NEP?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:37 pm 
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primarch wrote:
The only way I could see this happen if instead of a bonus, permit AA guns to re-roll misses on any flier attempting to land in its zone. Risky, since it increases the chance of hits, but not impossible.
Primarch



That sounds alot better to me :)


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 Post subject: NEP Flier Rules
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:19 am 
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Hi!

Thread for flier rules.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: NEP Flier Rules
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:21 am 
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Hey Primarch,

I had a thought what about some sort of reconnaissance mission for flyers not sure how it would work maybe you could fly them out to position on the board and then have them prevent a barrage from scattering?

Dunno if this would be of interest just occurred to me while watching TV :D


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 Post subject: Re: NEP Flier Rules
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:32 pm 
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deanmon wrote:
Hey Primarch,

I had a thought what about some sort of reconnaissance mission for flyers not sure how it would work maybe you could fly them out to position on the board and then have them prevent a barrage from scattering?

Dunno if this would be of interest just occurred to me while watching TV :D


Hi!

I think we tried that once, but the benefits were too few to warrant it as a special mission. Handing out bonus to hit for future strikes was also no a good idea.

It's one of those cool ideas that are hard to execute within the frame work of the rules.

Primarch

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