In the last FW apoc book, it has 12 Hull points as opposed to 9 for the Baneblade.

However, this last FW book has increased HP for several units (Vampires come to mind), without a specific explanation.

How big is the model in comparison?

_________________
"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

I've never seen them side by side (having last played 40k about 15 years ago....) I'm not sure, I've seen them both in person and they both look about the same size, but that's not a good gauge really....

I'm just putting the document together for the latest list as I type.....

_________________
Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

I think 4DC is appropriate (but it will be almost never break as a side effect though with ATSKNF so that has to be taken into consideration for pricing). I don't think a 4DC engine should be destroyed outright by it's critical. Perhaps something along the lines of…

"The Fellblades canon turret is damaged, it may not use its twin fellblade cannons for the rest of the game. Subsequent criticals destroy/take extra dc damage."

Heh I didnt put a crit effect on the quickref.... sorry!! I'm also going to move it to WE section

_________________
Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

I've kept it as destroyed, after all, the steam gargant is DC4 and that explodes on a crit..... with all the dark experimental tech on board the fellblade it probably would go up in a giant mushroom cloud if someone hit the ammo storage or reactor.....

_________________
Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

true but also remember that the HH series and 40k use the same system but are stated to be free from each others values meaning the same. Basically its designed to be internally balanced (hey, balanced and Gw ). Just saying that comparing IA and HH2 books are not necessarily equivalent. I'm really looking forward to seeing the Imperial Army stuff they say is coming.

DC3vs DC4? I can't say. Playtest away

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

I'm not sure what your point is, it has the equivalent of 4DC in both the HH and 40k rules.

It has 4DC because of the thickness and quality of it's high-tech armour. Even if it's the same size as a Baneblade (I think it uses some plastic superheavy parts so it might be) this doesn't really matter, no-one's going to confuse the two and a Predator has better armour than a Rhino afterall.

I started it at DC4 but dropped the move to 15cm from your proposed stats, I couldnt find anywhere saying it was faster than other superheavies, costed it at 350 to test as it puts out about the same level of AT firepower as a land raider squadron.....

_________________
Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

I agree. If it has 12 HullPoints instead of 9 it deserves DC4 in Eipc.

What are the 40k stats for it's turret gun?

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

I'm not being quite elegant in expressing the concept. What I am saying is that according to FW, actual values between the two settings are not always equivalent to each other. For instance, in 40k a Banblade has 9 Hull points. In HH, a Fellblade has 12. That doesn't mean that they are saying the Fellblade is 25% tougher. They might be using a bigger number to represent the same thing. To put it another way, they've left it open to allow themselves to stat a Baneblade in the HH setting with 12 hull points if they so desire. Or 10 or 44 or any other value(s) they care to make. The list / unit values are not directly synonymous always.

The real point, irrespective of the actual stats a unit may or may not get in any particular setting is that slavish adherence to an algorithm to port stats is secondary to balance, especially as the potentially flawed assumption that those values are based on the same "denominator" to mix metaphors

Personally 8BM to break a Fellblade is recockulous in any stretch of the imagination. That's as tough as a Warlord. I'd see 6Bm to break and giving the damn thing Leader to represent the Assault focal point it represents and extra toughness / advanced technology allowing it to better shed BM as being a more sane option.

It's tougher but not so much more killy than a BB. DC4 affects everything such as making that much more FF effective

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

I think it's more likely to die before it breaks....

_________________
Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

Well DC 4 is not going to get you there
Also DC isn't just representing morale under fire. Its also the whole gambit of superficial damage and reparable systems failure from under coming fire.

I've prattled on enough; Point has been made on stats.
BTW, I do feel strongly that renaming the unit as Relic Fellblade is better. Its not quite the same as a fresh off the assembly line Great Crusade Era vehicle. It's had 10k years of patches, fixes, improvement / deprovements it's also become so much more important a symbol for the chapter legacy. It probably deserves Inspiring. Basically names we give things matter in cognitive theories.

regardless, I look forward to playing this soon

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

Agreed on the name, mind if we wait till 0.2 to change it? I've had enough of spreadsheets and pdf creator for one day!

I also think it should have something to represent its holy relic status..... maybe an avatar style blast marker when it dies rule coupled with inspiring..... lets try it as-is for now

_________________
Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

Got a battle lined up for Sunday.

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

I think DC4 works as a good starting point for testing. Like Kyuss says, it will probably die before breaking given it has no shields with so much MW/TK weaponry around these days....

That said, optionally, given it's a relic and patched up for 10K years DC3 isn't a stretch either.

On a book-keeping note: Now we've got a list running, could we close this thread so we don't have to transverse two separate threads for discussion? The whole discussion on the Fellblade could very well go into the actual army list thread