I'm looking to expand my Tau army (SCP weekend release) and I'd like advice on a few units I don't currently have.

Gun drones, stealth battlesuits, skyrays and pathfinders.

The last two I believe are an auto take in the army, I'm not sure about the first two. I'd appreciate advice on the use of them all from experienced players, Ta.

Gun drones are useful for adding bodies to crisis suit formations and keeping them from being the BTS. Credit to Borka for suggesting that one to me, certainly makes me less hesitant about getting them stuck in...

General opinion on stealthsuits seems to be that they should be ok if you can get them to work, but no one seems to have managed it yet! I suppose 5/6 disrupt shots hitting on 3s should mess up broken formations but they always feel situational at best to me.

And yes, you will want skyrays and pathfinders - but you might want tetras a little bit more...

Thanks Alf,

Tetras I would really like to include but I'm waiting for Deacon to produce a tetra-like mini to match the rest of my army.

I'm guessing Skyrays are peppered around the board, will three be enough (games upto 6k)?

How about Pathfinders, used as upgrades, pathfinder units or a mix?

I'm pretty new to the air game but I tend to be looking at about 3/4 skyrays for 3000 points so I'd say double that to give yourself options up to 6k. Probably 3 at 3000 points actually, also depends on the presence of Barracudas, which make great interceptors by the way...

As for pathfinders, I've used them both ways. The advantage to the upgrade is that you gain in built markerlight support, the disadvantage is that you don't get the extra activation and you lose the option of garrisoning them. On balance I reckon you're better of taking them as a formation and getting your tactics and positioning right - just my gut feeling though, there are more experienced tau players around here that might think otherwise!!

My favourite 3k list has 5 skyrays -3 with fire warriors, 2 with hammerheads. Roughly working out a list at 6k I'd take at least 9 maybe as many as 12

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Gun drones - you may want at least 2 to 4 since they are bargain priced additions to units, but they are not needed.
Stealth battlesuits - Not needed. They superficially look decent, but are a 2+ unit that usually gains a BM on arrival and teleports near enemies who usually get to move first.
Skyrays - hard to do without. You need at least 1, I usually aim for 2, and legends tell of someone who takes up to 5 in their favourite 3k list but I've never seen it
Pathfinders - Very useful, rather than obligatory. I usually take some (3 added to firewarriors), but have run quite a few lists recently without them. Unless you're trying something unusual, I'd recommend them.

Sorry 4 at 3k

Mech Fire Warriors+Bonded Team+Skyray+Mech Fire Warriors
Mech Fire Warriors+Skyray
Hammerheads(rail)+Skyray
Hammerheads(rail)+Skyray
Pathfinders
Recon(1 Tetra, 5 Piranhas)
Recon(2 Piranhas, 4 Tetras)
Recon(5 Tetras, 1 Piranha)
Crisis+Shas'O
Barracudas
Orca
Hero

Up to 6k I'm taking a skyray formation, another hhead and 2 more FW -so 6 more skyrays

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Thanks guys, I'll loose the stealthsuits. As I don't have tetras or any air caste, I will concentrate on the pathfinders and skyrays (need the markerlights), with a few gun drones.

Sounds good. I tried the stealth suits for a few games, but they weren't worth their point.

I always take pathfinders, preferably as upgrades to FWs. They make the formation more resilent and give them markerlights. Skyrays are great I usually bring 3-4 in a 3000 pts game.

Cheers

When it is known, that Stealth battlesuits are not good, why they get not a liitle Bonus? (Point increase, more Units in the Formation) to make them a better Choice?

Me Too



Does this mean that the Stealth Group ought to cost less?
Or have a stat change?

Were your thoughts based on the 250 points for 6 Stealth Suit Units in ver. 6.4
Or the more recent 225 point costing? And the drop to 25 points for 2 Gun Drones?

Did they previously have initiative at +1, did that help?

What about allowing attached Gun Drones to also Teleport?

Last discussion I could find was with changes for version 6.5
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22520&p=455597&hilit=stealth#p455597

More focused discussion in the topic "Stealth Suits"
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22243&hilit=stealth

I haven't played with stealth since 6.4 so it was the higher cost. Perhaps they're worth their points after the reduction. The problem for me was that I found those points better spent elsewere. I guess it depends on your play stile.

They have their pros. Like all teleporters they can grab/contest hard to get objectives. You can get a scout screen at the start of any turn just were you need it, which can screw up your opponents end-of-last-turn-set-up. But they're pricey to just be used as a scout screen.
They have a supportive role as they can bring markerlights were you really need them and easily set up crossfires which is good. But usually you can do that with the cheaper recon.

They lack hitting power, which is another thing you might want from a teleporting formation.
I mean they are not a good assault formation. Yes they have first strike and a great save, but only FF 5+ and will usually have at least 1BM. that will detract from their resolution score and make them activate on 3+.
Their shooting is quite alright against infantry as it has disrupt and will be a 2+ on a sustain (or 3+ in cover). But it's still only 1 attack each and 15 cm (putting yourself in CC range). One unit will probably be suppressed on arrival and again usually (on turn of arrival) only activating on 3+. And Tau are usually quite good at hitting infantry anyway.

I didn't feel like I could get them to work. For me they became a means to get markerlights were I wanted, but I felt I could usually do that anyway for less points. The thing I've missed not having them for have been objective duty.

I'm still intrigued by Stealth groups (thanks Borka), though I haven't bought any yet. In the tournament pack (which I assume most EA players use) their 225 points for six and can be upgraded with gun drones (who sadly can't teleport with them). Surely they have to be good at something? Even if it's dropping in to capture an objective (lightly held/deserted), or maybe falling on infantry, lighting them up and disrupting them for another det. to finish of. Am I clutching at straws here?

I find the major benefit of teleporting units is the effect that they have on your opponent's choices. They always have to mentally assign at least one formation to dealing with them, and/or protect vulnerable formations against them. In game terms that means something will always be held back near the blitz, either something meaningful or multiple formations. Likewise the other objectives won't be left with just a couple of scouts holding them.

So in some sense, if your teleporting formation loses an engagement when it arrives, it has quite possibly already done its job anyway.

Of course, other teleporting formations (e.g. terminators) have this benefit whilst -also- being capable of actually destroying things and holding ground.

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Everyone agrees Stealth suits are not useful with their current stats, except for Yme-Loc. No one ever fields them, even Yme-Loc (EUK stats).

However, changing their stats is something Yme-Loc has repeatedly stated was against his design philosophy for an approved list, as approved lists should not be changed in any way which might interfere with their playstyle. And useful teleporters would change Tau playstyle a little, that's pretty uncontested.

Tau fluff indicates that Stealth suits spearhead massive battlesuit assaults, through reckon and prepping, and they do have an important role in Tau armies. However, the Tau list was approved before stealth suits could be properly fleshed out, and now the community has to live with the present stealth suit conundrum.

On the other hand, the Tau list is pretty playable through its other formations, so Stealth suits can be (un)happily left aside. They look good in dioramas though

For what it's worth, as many have stated in the past, 1+ initiative, 6 for 250 sounds about right. The usual counterargument is that Broadsides ^should see an initiative increase also if Stealth suits were improved. And that seems to be a problem for the reasons stated above. Personally, making the Broadside Railgun coincide with its current 40k version and increasing its initiative would be an acceptable and dynamic tradeoff, but here again, change is unlikely.

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