primarch wrote:
Hi!
I have decide on several things which I have included in the recent update for the spreadsheets. Most of these were proposed by Mattman and Riquende.
1.Marine HQ upgraded to +4 CAF
I would be amendable to making it +5 and just increasing the Chapter master to +6 for congruence sake.
2. Battle Company reduced to 800 points
3. Veterans Company increased to 1000 points with stat change to include -1TSM
The main differentiators between this company and Terminators are that the veteran company has more model and higher break point. This is not a trivial thing, since for all the terminators power 1 casualty is hurtful to them, less so for veterans. Also veterans have better range, although less attack dice.
I believe they are both comparable in power now and should cost the same.
4. Land raider helios cost adjustment to 350 (lowered).
5. Librarian power duplication: will discuss in separate post
6. Elite and PD1 added to all dreadnoughts.
Outstanding issues:
1.Land Speeder Typhoons & Tornado: too expensive or too small unit
My suggested solution is to have all formation be 5 landspeeders for 200.
2. Razorbacks too expensive but hard to balance (BP bonus etc...)
My suggestion is to use Mattman's IG idea for this. All razorbacks are a "add-on" support formation.
Razorback formation
3 razorbacks for 150 points
+2 to break point, +2 to VP
It would cost 600 to outfit the whole company, +6 to break point, +6 to VP.
3.Iron Hands Chapter way too strong (elite devas with regen..., 50 points single dread elite & HQ support card, get extra VP for wiping a complete enemy detachment... just check the special rules, you won't want to play another chapter).
I have never looked at these critically. Time to sit down and really inspect them under the microscope.....
Primarch
I have pulled together all the comments so far and will make a post with all the various proposals in the next few days.
I will also post up a list of all the units that I propose to be included in the basic marine army list (I.e no chapter specific stuff).
A few notes about the above post:
Normal HQ to +4, Veteran HQ to +5 CAF and Chaptermaster to +6. Like that.
Could see the Vet company at 950pts, but not worried over 50pts. Vet detachment would go up to 350 as well?
LR Helios at 350 seems like a good start.
Need to review the LR Crusader stats and do we want to add the LR Redeemer? They are a standard option in 40k marine lists these days.
Would we want my updated dreadnought stats I posted above to also have Elite and PD(1). Common sense says yes since they are supposed to be "elite".
All Landspeeder units to be 5 models and 200 pts seems fine as to upgrade a Land Speeder with either assault cannons, twin multi meltas or the missile launcher is very similar in points in 40k. Only change I would propose to the stats is to give the Tornado an extra AD (in fact I would query all units with assault cannons to see if they have enough AD).
Not sure were you Razorback calcs come from, as it would take 18 of them to transport a whole company (need two for each rhino, assume the commander keeps his rhino) and with your cost of 150pts means they would cost 900pts.
Did you mean 6 Razorbacks for 150pts? If yes then I think the cost and choosing it as an upgrade option per detachment would work (in 40k the cost to transport a squad in a Rhino compared to Razorbacks is about a 3 or 4 fold increase, which tallys with the 150pts increase for a detachment of Razorbacks compared to a detachment of Rhinos). So it would mean you could upgrade a company for 450pts. Though I could see them costing 200pts given they give you extra survivability for your men and it would give the numbers nice and tidy.
I would say, hold off on any Chapter specific list discussions until the basic list has been agreed and finalised. When we have a good baseline, then we can work out how to fit all the funky stuff in.
Matt
