MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Actually, you made it quite obvious that you did not know all about the weapon options because you expressly said that you were not sure about the Heavy Bolter. Thus I wanted to clear that up. Admittedly, the allowed weapon options may be different in 6th, 7th, or whatever the current edition is, so you might be right as well.
I guess I confused you there as well. I was making reference to the weapon options that are available to the Epic scale scalato model, not the 40k one. There are no arm options for heavy bolters, autocannons or plasma cannons for the epic scale model, let alone seismic hammers or hurricane bolters which the new versions also have access to.
You say we must not pull information from the Horus Hersey game, but the first edition of Epic was from the Horus Hersey era! And not all the equipment from back then was better.
I forgot that one of the 1st edition dreads was also called a Contemptor (thought it had a different name), that just confuses things even more
but in 40k lore now a Contemptor dread looks exactly like the stomper dread.
I have nothing against people wanting to use all the models available, I just think we need to make sure that the stats give a close approximation to what the models are. The stats in the rules for the old Contemptor, don't actually relate to the model since it should be armed with 2 twin linked bolt guns, not a heavy bolter. And why does the Furibundus have zero CAF when the Deredo has +2, they are similar machines just with different heavy weapons?
I suspect twin linked has been taken into account in some areas of the rules, but not all. Take the Baal Predator, it has 3 attack dice (maybe due to its twin linked assault cannons), whereas the Land Raider Crusader (which also has twin linked assault cannons) only has 1 attack dice. Some lascannon stats have a save mod of -1, whereas others are -2, is that due to being twin linked, maybe.
I know some people are against to much change and the addition of new units, but the precedent has been set with were we are with gold. We have lots of new units in the lists and a lot which relate to the newer eras of 40k.
So back to the dread stats, how about these (ignoring the Furioso and Venerable for the time being):
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Updated Dreadnaught Stats.JPG [ 48.14 KiB | Viewed 2916 times ]
I think these tie in more closely to what the variants do.
For the old models.
The old Contemptor is built for combat, so keep the +4 CAF and change the heavy bolter for 2 bolt gun shots (25cm, 5+ to hit), as per the models.
The Furibundas and Deredeo are built very similarly for combat with a single power fist, so both get the +2 CAF. The Deredeo keeps the standard Lascannon whereas to differentiate the Furibundas (the current weapon stats are almost identical) I have changed his missile launcher to be more of light barrage weapon. I have given them the @ symbol so they combine their BPs, but they could quite easily do without it.
This gives 3 distinct dreadnought versions for the old models.
For the new models.
The Combat and Heavy Support Scalatos are as I discussed above. For the support Scalato I have trimmed an attack dice off his assault cannon since he isn't twin linked (and helps the Mk II Contemptor stand out with its better cannon, see below).
As above, this gives 3 distinct dreadnought versions for the new models.
And lastly the Punisher/Contemptor MkII/Whatever he is???
As mentioned, he has a better assault cannon (but maybe not 4 attack dice good) so just the 3 like the current Punisher and just to make him a little more unique, the fixed save for his shields.
When I see these dreadnoughts, I can see them matching up very closely to their marine equivalents.
We have close combat dreadnoughts which matches up with the assault marines.
We have assault dreadnoughts which matches up with the tactical marines.
We have heavy support dreadnoughts which matches with the devastator marines.
We have an elitish dreadnought which matches with the veterans/terminators.
Thoughts?
Matt