This year warhounds have been taken by Marine players that can in 22 of 38 lists submitted. One list took a Reaver + Warhound + T'hawk. Warhound pairs were taken twice.

Of these lists 15 of the 22 would break the 1/3rd rule if T'hawks/LC were moved into the air third. I didn't check about spacecraft but I suspect that wouldn't change the numbers much if that were moved.

The eight championship tournaments so far this year were won by

Black Legion, Black Legion, Steel Legion, Biel Tan, Ghazgkhull warhorde, Codex Marines, Codex Marines, Codex Marines and Speed Freaks.

And the 3 winning Marine players were TRC, Yme-Loc and Steve54.

Well that would take a lot of time and some code as my database isn't designed for such deep analysis. Its actually in 3rd normal form (for those interested) so is a bit of a pain to query at all!

On the other topic I now have 5 T'hawks and a LC, just not all painted! But with nearly half you army in AC it's a list not designed to do well!

I've got about 20 odd, including 6 square ones and 2 small ones (both from 2nd ed).

It did win before the changes, just not as much. The amry list composition changed a bit after the changes as things like terminators and terminator air air assaults became more viable.

Oh and I can't remember if we ever tried the 1 landing craft + Shed loads of thunderhawks army (I think it probably had thunderbolts and warhounds as well). Possible against General_Ng or Ginger. That was before the lander capture rule change though. Still back then it was fun to use all the thunderhawks 14 activations if 'pure' aircraft, would be something like 2 warhounds, 2 thunderbolts, bikes?, landing craft, 8 thunderhawks today though.

Of the 24 events in my database from Jan 2008 Marines have won 10 of them. In 2007 they won 0 out of 7 events and in 2006 3 out of 6.

I think 2007 say Chaos come into play and peer pressure stopped the 3 Warhound, 3 Terminator air assault lists from the field that was the staple of 2006.

And one final stat that is interesting. Since 2008 83 people have attended recorded tournaments in the UK. Of those 8 different people have finished 1st in the 24 events.

yeah, i have about 20 or so aswell

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~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

It is on this statement that the argument for nerfing Warhounds and upping Marauders and restricting Thunderhawks is based. While the tourney scene does seem to take the T-Hawk / Warhound combo the majority of the time, it isn't exclusively, "almost solely", or even the vast majority. In the scientific world we call that often.

And while the UK enclave of players has seen the SMs win with Warhounds and Thunderhawks the majority of the time (22 of 38 = 58%), our gaming groups have not seen this combo used much. In fact I can say in personal memory going back four years having never seen this combo, even in a friendly game.

Dave does drop Marines with no Thunderhawks. Cameron was running mud Marines for some time before moving to a more balanced list (with 1 T-Hawk and no Warhounds). Rob, one of the newer players, beat the Necron with no Thunderhawks and no Warhounds (and no magical dice) at all! No, that can't be true!... But it is true.

Oh, and Predators are fielded successfully with regularity round these parts. Another unit that nobody ever sees ever.

This thread is moving into crazy town. How can you argue that Space Marines ONLY win with a certain army build (something that is obviously false based on data from two large groups), then solve the problem by restricting their purchases to certain army builds? The only thing you will accomplish is forcing players into doing the one thing that you are arguing against. Daft I believe is the word I am looking for.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Can what be done properly?

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Some kind of stat analysis.

That way lies madness. :-)

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I believe Anihilators with hunter are quite common.

Anyway - I put it to you one of the 'standard' UK tourney winning armies used by someone who knows the patient GT goal focused way of playing them would walk over the marine armies you mention above. If only because they do already in the UK. Unless there is some significant difference in how you play Epic itself. Indeed I can see a ton of ways in which the 'normal' UK marine army would crucify those ones.

Indeed how about a game on vassal at some point