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Overall Mission Statement

 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:22 am 
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Quote: (dasphynx @ 24 Feb. 2009, 06:21 )

On one hand; a Titan Legion with its accompanying subordinate Knight Households. And on the other; a (Knight) "Warrior" Household with its own Tech Guard.

Which is basically the situation now, either a TL list with forge knights (probably should be renamed to paladins) or a full knightworld list.

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:16 pm 
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But forge knights aren't paladins, and are pretty different from "real" knights - basically factory machines pressed into service much like Industrial Mechs in Battletech (IIRC).


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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:15 pm 
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I thought some of the background for knights was that they originated as farm equipment (used for tending the herds of huge beasties), so forge knights aren't a huge divergence.

Really, though, the problem with just renaming forge knights to paladins, is that the traditional weapons load on a paladin is a lot different than what E&C wanted in this list. That's why he made up a new unit, so he could equip it however he deemed appropriate without the baggage of past editions.

I think people felt that there should be some knight unit in the list, but the one that made the most sense, fluff-wise, didn't work well (or worked too well) in the list. Just making up a new one was the solution chosen here (at least for the time being).


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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:17 pm 
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Quote: (vytzka @ 24 Feb. 2009, 13:16 )

But forge knights aren't paladins, and are pretty different from "real" knights - basically factory machines pressed into service much like Industrial Mechs in Battletech (IIRC).

E&C made up the background on "forge knights", and could easily change it. "Forge knights" are not canon.

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:26 pm 
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Quote: (semajnollissor @ 24 Feb. 2009, 14:15 )

I thought some of the background for knights was that they originated as farm equipment (used for tending the herds of huge beasties), so forge knights aren't a huge divergence.


  Hoi.

  semajnollissor, the following is from the old, old rulebook:  "The most important innovation that the Tech-Priests brought to the Knight Worlds were the fighting machines also called Knights.  These machines were one-man versions of a Titan, much smaller and less powerful than a Titan, but far better suited to the mobile style of warfare prevalent amongst the nobility of the Knight Worlds."  

  All of which implies that the Tech-Priests already had the Knights and that they were not derived from farm machinery.  This might also explain the split between the Knight World "Knight Households" and the forge world "Warrior Households"




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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:23 pm 
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Are there any plans for an Admech Explorator force?

or is it to be a sub-variant possible to field within one of the 3 proposed lists (presumably Skitari)?

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:15 pm 
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Just FYI regarding Knights..

In the White Dwarf edition when knights first appeared for "Epic" they were used to herd large "food beasts" using a Shock Lance.  This device delivered electrical shocks to allow the beats to be herded.  In battle the knights could release all the power in their capacitors to produce the weapon-version of the shock lance (which was a very, VERY short ranged template weapon).  The knights also had shielding technology that was different from void shields (designed to deflect attacks rather than absorb, and in a gladiator style only covering one side of the knight).  The experience of the pilot determined the effectiveness of the shield.  In addition different forms of knight had assorted other weapons (las-cannons, battlecannons, CCWs etc).

Paladin was the baseline model.
Lancer was the faster lighter model.
Warden was a unshielded, long-range knight piloted by the senechels (semi-retired pilots too old for the rigours of the faster knights).

The Imperial Knights were very much in the vein of Eldar Exodite Knights, who had a Psychic Lance and holo-shields.





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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:35 pm 
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I've spoken to a few people who have been sad about how everyone always ignores the shocklance component of the Knights and their dinosaur grazing heritage... It has pretty much been accepted that while it was of its time, in the current grim-dark 41st millennium it really doesn't fit and is more than a bit ridiculous.

Knights are seemingly evolving to be almost a next class of titan, both in design and in tactical use. While I agree it is sad to see such a colourful background fall by the wayside, it is probably time.

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:37 am 
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Quote: (freebooter @ Feb. 08 2010, 22:35 )

I've spoken to a few people who have been sad about how everyone always ignores the shocklance component of the Knights and their dinosaur grazing heritage... It has pretty much been accepted that while it was of its time, in the current grim-dark 41st millennium it really doesn't fit and is more than a bit ridiculous.

Knights are seemingly evolving to be almost a next class of titan, both in design and in tactical use. While I agree it is sad to see such a colourful background fall by the wayside, it is probably time.

I agree

Trouble with the Knights in background terms, as presented years ago, where that they completely missed the point about Warhammer 40k. As did many people.

They represented knights from some, feudal, medieval and primitive society, on primative worlds that where somehow different from the society of the of the Imperium at large.

Trouble is, is that the Imperium is that, medieval, feudal and primitive society. That's the point that people used to forget.

Knights therefore are, or should be, an integral and common component of the society at large.
Indeed they are already represented, in a very special form, by Space Marines, who are clearly orders of Holy Knights.

I would see Knights as individuals,groups or bands who come from the local sector where any given war may be taking place who have a duty to fight as payment for their privaleged status (knight service) or who are 'sub contracted' by their 'baron' (continental or planetary governor? or ad mech types?) to do so in the baron's stead.

Geddit?

I think I argued this elsewhere on these forums - but I forget where

As to the weapons used, pretty much any 'modern' 40k weapons would be available. No need for silly lances (let the more romantic eldar have those!)

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:25 pm 
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Quote: (Rug @ Feb. 09 2010, 11:16 )

One of the big reasons for making Forge Knights up was to enable players to use Knights but avoid having to include all the special rules Knights deserve which would clutter up the AMTL list.

Funnily enough, and according to my argument I guess, knights don't deserve any special rules. There's nothing 'special' about em!

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:32 pm 
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The Knight Shield is pretty much special.

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 Post subject: Overall Mission Statement
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:36 pm 
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Quote: (BlackLegion @ Feb. 09 2010, 11:32 )

The Knight Shield is pretty much special.

was special - past tense.
My argument would suggest they would simply use standard technology, since knights are 'standard' not special or outre' in anyway.

Knight shield translates to force field generator. That's why E&C has given them an Invulnerable Save.

Edit: The only thing different about them is that they seem to use very large suits of armour, that no one else seem to bother with or have access to, probably only manufactured and provided by the Ad Mech. And the only reason for that is because we have lots of people with knight models who want to use em.




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