Can all EpicA discussions on this forum go for a full month without any of the threads talking about 40k?

This would include:
- not referring back to 40K examples
- not using 40k to justify why epic should have this or that unit
- not using 40k as a basis as to why units 'have to' have this or that
- not posting changes in 40k in order to change the development of lists that do not ever appear to be reaching conclusion as it is

Can it be done?

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Frogbear is responsible for...
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No, but I don't think they should / need to

No  

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AFK with real life, still checking PMs

I have a dream

Making Epic Rules/units out of 40k seems stupid to me
Epic should have a much bigger range of models and units than 40k

who needs x tank variants for 40k
who needs x different Imperial army lists

Tank factory whatever was destroyed  so this legion xy could not use this variant...do we need this really??

Splitting codexes is only for making more money like Epic 40k when it was realesed

Hey new army size , yes smaller but doubled priced is that cool eh?

IMO its  nearly same the with E:A

I do not want to rail to much about it  

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I am not available for that cognition on my part

Its often still referred to as Epic40k

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Once. 40K had very few unit types in terms of tanks compared to epic.

This was obviously because producing all manner of weird wonderful tanks in 6mm was much MUCH easier than in 28mm. So Epic led the way for years and 40k was playing catchup.

Every now and then GW said "Wouldn't it be cool if we had this or that epic thing in 40k."


Eldar Falcons and Waveserpents
Leman Russ
Basilisks
Baneblades
Stompas!

"BTW (we don't care that these things make no sense in game play terms at 28mm we just gotta 'ave 'em)" they also said

Now it seems the the other way round.


Anyway, I don't think we have to be tooo anal about 40k. Trying to convert 40k stuff exactly to epic causes. Certainly we shouldn't take stats as gospal. 40k stats are often b0ll0cks anyway.

Stick to the spirit of 40k but not the exact letter.

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If GW wont support epic, and we never got new ideas from 40k i think the game would stagnate a bit. A lot of the new stuff in 40k is rubbish, some of its good, and the redesigned models are often interesting, we dont need to 'chase' 40k but neither should we hide from its changes.

If stats are transferred into variant fan lists i think that's fine but im also perfectly happy to proxy, eg FW blood slaughterers just used as defilers etc.

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I don't know if I necessarily understand, and would like to see specific examples, but the big issue is... it's the same universe. Epic's world is colored by the flavor text of 40K, the only real difference being losing some fine focus. Detailed unit-specific rules may be dropped, but I would expect a unit to have the same general "feel" of 40K.

Also, what's the issue with adding new units to the Epic series based on what comes out in the 40K universe? Nothing has to come immediately, but a little change like that can always inject some stimulus into an army, and I, personally, always like something new and fun to paint, even if it's tactically unfeasible.

Matching this-for-that is a little nutty at the 6mm scale, of course. I read through part of a discussion in the Marines forums discussing putting missile launchers in every stand as per the rules, or every two (with a sergeant filling in space on the other stand) to match the 40K equivalent. I'm sure no one complains when their opponent does not have a properly represented missile launcher hanging out; they just take the generalizations that come with a game of this scale and roll with it.

It might be funny to organize a forum-wide game of who can refrain from saying anything about 40K for the longest. Everything would be Cutlery Monsters and Nashorns...

Frogbear is being grumpy.

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nah! Just thought I would stir the pot and see what surfaced.

As you can see, I am not responding to comments.    

I didn't even vote.

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Frogbear is responsible for...
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Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
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Previous Chaos Squats

Ultimately, I've talked to 40k players who've been interested in Epic, but have read this forum and seen very eliteist talk about how "we don't want their sort messing around in our game system" and it's put them off playing Epic.

Which ain't cool.

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I personally don't have the time/money for both 40k and Epic, so for me 40K is a lot like popular singer of the day Katy Perry: I can appreciate how attractive it is, but I also know I'm unlikely to have anything to do with it in the near future. I love the look of some of the new models, but I'll never own or play with them.

As a result I love new 40k models crossing over into Epic, especially when they're as well made as the current output, FW or otherwise. Surely one of the benefits of a fan-modded ruleset is that we can add rules for new models quickly without having to wait 3 years for the next codex update?

I've got to agree with E&C about not putting off 40K players with elitism - without new players the game can and will die out. Most 40K gamers are probably going to want to see their favourite units and then some in Epic (I know I'm not the first to say this), and I don't have a problem with it.  It seems to me that the Epic Armageddeon rules especially are geared towards the current incarnation of 40K rather than Space Marine, 2nd Edition 40K or Titan Legions, so I think it's totally fair that the current ERC rules follow the current 40K game.  I can't comment on NetEpic that much, but it seems to be much more for nostalgic 1st/2nd edition Epic gamers rather than people who want up to date rules and forces. That's fine and each to their own, but I reckon E:A is geared towards modern 40K so there's no reason why it shouldn't be kept up to date.

EDIT: just re-read the comment from eypyeash, couldn't agree more.  A unit of Devastators should play roughly the same way in both systems: good mid-range firepower and a bit crap in close combat.  I like the idea that a 40K player could play an Epic game 'remotely' (40k player giving orders, but have a seasoned Epic player rolling the dice and interpreting the rules for them) and be able to be just as successful as they are in 40K. Obviously there'd be some new concepts, but they shouldn't be shocked by the abilities of a unit they've used in both games.

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Great Scott!

I'll be the first to admit that I'm tired of 40k wagging Epic's tail, but some reference to 40k is necessary for an obvious reason: it's the same universe. Also, if the goal is to attract 40k players, then it is not unreasonable to expect that units in 40k generally behave the same way in Epic. However, I don't see the need to have every single vehicle variant in Epic.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

Haven't you referred to 40K as a kid's game about a hundred times?  

I don't disagree, just sayin'...
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At the end of the day, I like certain things from 40K and other things I don't.  We should feel comfortable cherry picking from 40K (like those beauties for the Elysians!) while not feeling constricted by it.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

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Pretty much what DS said.
It is important that Epic bears siilarities with 40k since the "tiny version of 40k" is a big selling point for the new player.
That said I do think it is too much when you want individual stats for the different Vyper, Grav Platoform or Wave Serpent weapons. Sure it can be fun to model such detail (as I have with my Dark Angles) but it IS getting a bit OCD at times.  As house rules it is fine but it might be a bit excessive for practical gaming reasons.

What bothers me most though is if people use 40k to LIMIT what can be done in Epic, saying we can't do this or that because 40k doesn't mention it. I think this really limits creativity both in terms of developing sensible rules and units, but even more so if someone wants to create something a bit unusual like an all ogryn army or whatever. Keeping within the spirit of the universe is one thing, Fluff-lawyering another. It IS a big universe after all.

As always it is a matter of balance. Micro-managing everything and wanting rules and fluff justification for everything in game can be damaging in the sense that it dissuades people from thinking for themselves and being creative.

/rant mode off  

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