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Necron List Changes
Chroma
 Post subject: Necron List Changes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:05 pm 
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Why not:

Monolith formation:  One Monolith and two Obelisks - 200 points

Upgrades:
Add up to two additional Obelisks - +50 points each.
Replace two Obelisks with a Monolith - free


25 and 50 point increments are *much* easier to work with and don't leave any "wasted" points.  Monoliths are easily worth 100 points each.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necron List Changes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:05 pm 
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It's not a problem as such, but as the backlash over your suggested change to the minervan pricing shows, people prefer to have a baseline formation cost and then upgrades on top of that. That's the way it's done in just about every other case in epic.

Do we even want to be able to field 5 monolith formations? Or formations of 1 monolith and 4 obelisks? Have we any idea if these formations are balanced?

I'd much prefer 2 simple formations:


Code Sample: 

Formation:          Core Units                Upgrades                         Cost

Monolith Phalanx    3 Monoliths               0-3 Obelisks 50 points each      275 points

Monolith Maniple    1 Monolith, 2 Obelisks    0-1 Monolith 75 points          Ã‚ 200 points
                                             0-1 Obelisks 50 points


I think that's a whole lot cleaner.




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zombocom
 Post subject: Necron List Changes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:13 pm 
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Chroma: That allows 2 monolith formations for 200 points. We want to avoid 2 model formations

300 points is pretty steep for the fluffy 3 monolith formation too; it'd never be seen. Monoliths are worth about 100 points, but 3 of them in a formation is less efficient so needs a price break.




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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necron List Changes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:46 pm 
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Hey, whatever makes it easier on people's eyes and brains.  The chart you did up looks fine I suppose (although I don't think we ever talked about 3M3O, so that would need to be dialed back to 0-2 Obelisks).

Anyone else?

Bear in mind the formations would be 275 and 200 points respectively.

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mnb
 Post subject: Necron List Changes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:55 pm 
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it does look good. and might be less confusing then trying to cram it into one line.
so do we test these stats?
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zombocom
 Post subject: Necron List Changes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:21 am 
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Quote: (Moscovian @ Sep. 29 2009, 23:46 )

Hey, whatever makes it easier on people's eyes and brains.  The chart you did up looks fine I suppose (although I don't think we ever talked about 3M3O, so that would need to be dialed back to 0-2 Obelisks).

I had 0-3 Obelisks because 3M3O is a legal formation in the current list.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necron List Changes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:40 am 
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I'm just going off the conversation with Corey I had.  We discussed 3-5 but 3-6 seems fine to me as well.  I don't see it getting whacky and I can't imagine Corey disagreeing.

So yeah, let's go with the 200 and 275 formations and allow for Monoliths at +90 points and Obelisks at +50 points.  3-6 for the formation size.

Abattoir is changed to 8DC, minus one EA off the FF and CC (Tk).  Those combined with the changes already made on Obelisks being moved to Support, etc..

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necron List Changes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:18 am 
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Sounds good. I'd keep the upgrades sizes as I had them, so only Obelisk upgrades for the 3M formation, and 0-1 Monolith for the mixed formation so the monolith numbers don't overlap or go above 3.

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Dave
 Post subject: Necron List Changes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:18 pm 
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What about this to get it all as one formation on the army list?

Code Sample: 
Formation  Units                      Upgrades             Cost
Monolith   1 Monolith and 2 Obelisks  Monoliths, Obelisks  200


Code Sample: 
Upgrades   Notes                                    Cost
Monoliths  Upgrade up to two Obelisks to Monoliths  +40 each
Obelisks   Up to three units per formation          +50 each


Allows 3-6 with max of 3 Monoliths AND adheres to the style of the current list.




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zombocom
 Post subject: Necron List Changes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:29 pm 
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Dave: Not bad, but still not a 25 point increment for the 3 monolith formation.

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Dave
 Post subject: Necron List Changes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Quote: (zombocom @ Sep. 30 2009, 09:29 )

Dave: Not bad, but still not a 25 point increment for the 3 monolith formation.

With 40, 35 and 65 point upgrades (currently) is this a huge concern?

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zombocom
 Post subject: Necron List Changes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:34 pm 
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It's not a huge concern, but it is a concern. The 3 monolith formation has already had a price bump from 255 to 275 and bumping to 280 is effectively bumping to 300 as that 20 points will likely be wasted.

Equally I like the idea of having a basic formation of 3 monoliths called a "Monolith Phalanx" as a nod to the apocolypse formation.




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zombocom
 Post subject: Necron List Changes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:38 pm 
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Quote: (Dave @ Sep. 30 2009, 14:31 )

With 40, 35 and 65 point upgrades (currently) is this a huge concern?

Personally I'd like to see those rounded off, with stat adjustments if neccesary.

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Vaaish
 Post subject: Necron List Changes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:47 pm 
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I like how that reads. Clear and simple to use, but for the sake of argument, could the cost of the monolith upgrade just be boosted to 50 points?




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Dave
 Post subject: Necron List Changes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:49 pm 
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Quote: (zombocom @ Sep. 30 2009, 09:34 )

and bumping to 280 is effectively bumping to 300 as that 20 points will likely be wasted.

Would you really field only 1 of these in an army? Buy the formations in pairs and you can squeeze in immortals.

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