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Returning Epic player needs some Army advice

 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:05 pm 
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Time to resurrect this thread from the abyss!

Just bought some Chaos figs, seems to be a khorne army + some stuff that will be great for my marine army =D

Some questions about chaos though,
if I make a Khorne armylist with 75% (3000p in Khorne power)
can I then (if I want, add stuff from all the other powers at the same time?)
i.e. 1 greater deamon from each of the other powers...

also, how could example armies look using the following figures (there are also figures not on stands yet  if it seems that there are wierd number of stands for a particular unit)

Metal:
   * 2 Banelord Titans
   * 4 Warhound Titans
   * 1 Bloodthirster of Khorne
   * 1 Tzeentch Lord of Change
   * 1 Great Unclean One of Nurgel
   * 1 Slaanesh Keeper of Secrets
   * 2 Khorne Lord of Battles
   * 1 Fulgrim, Primarch of Slaanesh
   * 1 Mortarion, Primarch of Nurgel
   * 1 Angron, Primarch of Khorne
   * 1 Magnus the Red, Primarch of Tzeentch
   * 6 Cannon of Khorne
   * 2 Tower of Skulls
   * 2 Cauldron of Blood
   * 2 Death Dealer
   * 3 Blood Reaper (formally  Grim Ripper?)
   * 3 Brass Scorpion (formally Blood Hunter?)
   * 3 Doom Wing
   * 2 Tzeentch Fire Lord
   * 2 Silver Towers of Tzeentch
   * 4 Land Raider
   * 7 unkown tanks, (might be predators)
   * 9 Flamers
   * 6 Plaguebearers
   * 5 Beast of Nurgel
   * 5 Khorne Bloodletters
   * 4 Khorne Flesh Hounds

Plastic:
   * 3 Imperial Titans
   * 12 Land Raiders
   * 29 Rhinos
   * 12 Whirlwinds
   * 2 Bike stands
   * 54 stands Marines of various figs
   * 5 stands Chaos Androids
   * 14 Tzeentch Disc Raiders
   * 4 stands Slaanesh Beast Riders
   * 15 stands Khorne Juggernauts
   * 10 stands Chaos Squats
   * 17 stands Chaos Marines
   * 10 Champions of Chaos
   * 26 Minotaurs
   * 18 Trolls
   * 12 stands Beastmen
   * 10 Fiends of Slaanesh

ps. which powers can I make a 3000p army out of? (100% power + standard list) which are fun to play that is =)

totally n00b on chaos, never played with or against it before.


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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:23 pm 
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You could easily field a 3000 points Full Khorne army or a 3000 points Full Tzeentch army.

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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:52 pm 
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Some questions about chaos though,
if I make a Khorne armylist with 75% (3000p in Khorne power)
can I then (if I want, add stuff from all the other powers at the same time?)
i.e. 1 greater deamon from each of the other powers...


So you're total would be a 4000 point Chaos Army and you want to use 75% of that for Khorne which comes to 3000 points... and then you hope to use the remaining 1000 points for ALL the other factions?.. hmmm. 1000 points might buy you just enough for one faction.

Using this example you must take up to 3000 points from the Khorne list and you may also use the Standard Chaos list too. You may then use the remaining 1000 points on any (or all, but you can't afford it) of the other Chaos Powers lists (Need three minion cards per Greater Daemon etc, as normal) or any other list other than Eldar or Space Marines... doesn't mention it but you could probably exclude Tyranids and Adeptus Ministorum too.)

If you are using mixed Chaos Powers however, please remember to let your opponent know about the optional rules for "Divided Powers" or "Combined Powers" It's only fair that there should be a down side to cherry picking the best of more than one list.

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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:54 am 
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Quote: (Malleus @ 28 Jan. 2009, 18:05 )

Some questions about chaos though,
if I make a Khorne armylist with 75% (3000p in Khorne power)
can I then (if I want, add stuff from all the other powers at the same time?)
i.e. 1 greater deamon from each of the other powers...

The simple answer is yes.  You take 75% from Khorne, and the other 25% from any/all of the other powers.  The 25% still has to follow the rules of those powers though, so if you picked a Tzeentch Warp Palace you still need to buy it 3 minions from the Tzeentch list!  So, at 4K you'd be working hard to get more than one other power represented.

doesn't mention it but you could probably exclude Tyranids and Adeptus Ministorum too.)
 The former can never ally and the later are codex lists so cant be taken as allies.

All the major Chaos powers are cool to play.  As Scream said, you are looking at Khorne or Tzeentch with that lot though.  Slaanesh isn't much fun without the Knights and Nurgle is hard without a couple of Plague Towers to back up Morty.  If you used all those titan bits to make yourself a Bubonis it might be cool though....


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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:43 pm 
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Ah, I totally missed that I need 3 minion cards!

anyhow, would some experienced Chaos player help me make a Khorne and a Tzeentch 4000p army? (pref without the the warhounds I think they are going into my marine list somehow =D, or perhaps a titan legion list, now that I for some reason have 6 warlordtitans and 4 warhounds?!)


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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:06 pm 
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Right, first off carefully read the rules and restrictions for Chaos Forces and the costs and abilities of the units.

What I like to do is divide the force into sections and select the Greater Daemons first. I always keep an eye on just how many Chaos Cards I can get and try to maximize how many I can get. This is important as they can be used on occasion as Chaos Powers or more importantly they are used to fend off hits to your Greater Daemons.

Try constructing the Greater Daemons around three minions at first that adds up to about 1000 points total (cost of Greater Daemon included).

For example, your Tzeentch Allies...

Magnus the Red         300 points (3x Chaos Cards)
Silver Towers          350 points (+1 Chaos Card)
Doomwings              250 points (+1 Chaos Card)
Flamers                100 points
Total:                1000

Lord Of Battle         400 points (3x Chaos Cards)
Deathstorm              85 points
Doom Burner             ?? points Not in Chaos list, it's in Imperia list and who's stupid idea was that?
Daemon Engines (3x any) 300
Bloodletters            150
Juggers                 150
Total                  1?00 (You'll need to sort the weapon cost yourself)

Angron                  300 (3x Chaos Cards)
World Eaters Legion     600 (Special Legion Card) Does not count as minion
Rhino Transports         50
Rhino Transports         50
Rhino Transports         50
Total                  1050

You would then have approx 850 points left depending on how much the weapons cost for the Lord of battle.

Lord of Battles II       400 (3x Chaos Cards)
Chain Fist                50
? Close combat weapon    ??
Flesh Hounds             100
Flesh Hounds             100
Juggers of Khorne        150
Total                    8?0

That would make approx 4000 total depending on weapons. With 14x Chaos Reward Cards and One Special Legion Card.

I would use the silver towers to protect my shooting lord of battles and skulk behind cover with the other with the close combat weapons until it was time to charge out. I would snipe big stuff with Magnus and use Angron to lurk about and break up large concentrations of enemy troops. Don't let more than one or two Greater Daemons get exposed to fire in any one turn. Use your Chaos Marines and Rhinos to grab far objectives early and use the Berserkers to take objectives. You have the Legion card to make any of the normal Chaos Marines into Berserkers for a turn. The flamers are good at killing stuff in cover as are the doomwings. The doomwings are good against other flyers too. The Juggers and Bloodletters and Fleshhounds are all good close combat troops with their own little rules to keep you amused.

Again I would say that you should use one of the optional rules for combined Chaos Powers as in the Fluff Khorne and Tzeentch DO NOT get on.

However, after that all that is left to say is... "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!.."




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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:37 pm 
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Does the Khorne Lord Of battle need atleast 3 support cards too?, Im abit confused on that one =)

and are the rhino transports realy minioncards for Angron?





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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:14 pm 
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For every and any Greater Daemon or Greater Daemon Possessed Engine, like the Lord of Battles or the Plague Tower or the Alter of Slaanesh or the Warp Palace you MUST have three minions. Even Bubonus the plague Titan or Skylock the Warlord Titan of Tzeentch or Abominatus the Imperitor of Khorne or PassedOver Titan of Slaanesh all have to have minions.

Well Rhino's are listed under the Standard Chaos List as support cards so I would say so. They have always been acceptable minions from the very start and it doesn't look like they have changed any.

You need to read the rules mate   :tongue:

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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:07 am 
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It is probably best to start with the latest army list.  You can find it on the WikiWikiWar site:

http://www.players.tacticalwargames.net ... ...ryId=17

Khorne would be pretty easy:

I usually play 2 LoBs, one with both CC weapons and one with both ranged weapons.  The former is 450 and the later 560...which here gets rounded down to 550 but if people want to get strict about it where you are make it 600.

If you like giant robots then take a Banelord as the special for each.  That's 2450 spent already  :vD.  Now, for the other 4 required minions take 2 units of Cannons of Khorne (to go with the shooty LoB) and 2 units of Juggers.  That's 3150.  I'd add the World Eaters cause they are cool, 2 Rhinos for speedy transport and Bloodletters for flavour.  Viola, 4K with 4 titans  :oh:  

For Tzeentch, base around Magnus, Warp Tower and the T-Sons.  I usually lean on the standard list for a bit of muscle with Tzeentch using any of their company cards, but usually either the Renegades or Beastmen horde.  Daemon is cool if you like Trolls/Minis and looks like you can do it with what you have.  Horrors are a must if you can.




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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:32 am 
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Quote: (zap123 @ 30 Jan. 2009, 00:07 )

It is probably best to start with the latest army list too.  Some of the previous advice would clash with that (e.g. the Chaos Marine centuries count as company cards, not special minion cards).  You can find it on the WikiWikiWar site:

http://www.players.tacticalwargames.net ... ...ryId=17

Khorne would be pretty easy:

I usually play 2 LoBs, one with both CC weapons and one with both ranged weapons.  The former is 450 and the later 560...which here gets rounded down to 550 but if people want to get strict about it where you are make it 600.

If you like giant robots then take a Banelord as the special for each.  That's 2450 spent already  :vD.  Now, for the other 4 required minions take 2 units of Cannons of Khorne (to go with the shooty LoB) and 2 units of Juggers.  That's 3150.  I'd add the World Eaters cause they are cool, 2 Rhinos for speedy transport and Bloodletters for flavour.  Viola, 4K with 4 titans  :oh:  

For Tzeentch, base around Magnus, Warp Tower and the T-Sons.  I usually lean on the standard list for a bit of muscle with Tzeentch using any of their company cards, but usually either the Renegades or Beastmen horde.  Daemon is cool if you like Trolls/Minis and looks like you can do it with what you have.  Horrors are a must if you can.

These rules are kinda confusing, are all Specialcards and supportcards that are in either the relevenat power or in the standard chaoslist considered a Minion card for greater daemons?

the more I have time to actually read the rules the more I like the CC,close range chaos, even though they have a frightfull amount of special rules!


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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:00 am 
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Quote: (zap123 @ 30 Jan. 2009, 00:07 )
It is probably best to start with the latest army list too.  Some of the previous advice would clash with that (e.g. the Chaos Marine centuries count as company cards, not special minion cards).


I used the up to date rules actually. The Legion/Century or whatever are 600 points and come as a company card true but are a Special Legion in that you gain a special World Eaters card with taking the company. I suppose some might jump to the conclusion this means a special minion card but I can't see how. I'm unsure just at what point I specified that I was using anything but the up to date list. The LoB I suggested are exactly the same as your own suggestion with the exception that I couldn't be arsed finding the costs for weapons that have been stupidly listed separately on another list (Imperial) instead of duplicated in the Chaos List as it should be. So what's the problem here??? :glare:

Baneblades are... not very good IMO. They have limited range and a tendency to attract fire without being able to take it. They have the potential to be good in close combat if you're already winning but you have to get there first.

You might want to look at the rules for the Marks of Chaos too but it might be too much to remember at the start. I haven't even used them yet.

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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:56 am 
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another question about Khorne Berzerkers, the rules say

In addition, if the Chaos player is winning (has the higher Victory Points total from the
previous turn) then all Khorne Berserkers triple their base move.

does that mean that they they get 45cm base + 15cm for chargeorders or do they get the ridiculus 45cm base + 45cm chargeorders?
(as charge is 2xbase move)...

whatever the rule is perhaps it should be clarified in the GOLD book...


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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:06 am 
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Yes, I've had a run in with Chaos players who want to interpret this as a 45cm plus another 45cm when on charge orders which is quite ridiculous. They obviously meant triple the base move in total = 45cm max. It just wasn't written very well in any of the versions unfortunately and that allows the power players out there enough of a loop hole to argue their case. I guess you just can't get all of the errors.

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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:57 pm 
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Quote: (Warhead @ 30 Jan. 2009, 10:06 )

Yes, I've had a run in with Chaos players who want to interpret this as a 45cm plus another 45cm when on charge orders which is quite ridiculous. They obviously meant triple the base move in total = 45cm max. It just wasn't written very well in any of the versions unfortunately and that allows the power players out there enough of a loop hole to argue their case. I guess you just can't get all of the errors.

perhaps its not to late to get it changed into something else in Gold edition?


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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:17 pm 
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Not my call mate, I'm just a playa' just like you.

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