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Returning Epic player needs some Army advice

 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:57 pm 
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Hi, having played SM2 wayback Im now finding myself wanting to start up again.

I have alot of SM and eldar models that need a better paintjob, and as a first step I wanted to make a 4000p NetEpic 5.x Army but as I havent played in ages and havent played using alternate activation rules (and no fliers either) I wanted to see what you all thought of the army I dreamed up...

Also I've seen people talking about version 5.2 but I've only found 5.0 and 5.1 where is the 5.2 versions?
Are there any place to get Armycards for 5.x? I've seen some on this forums but they werent correct in alot of stuff and had a ton of spelling errors.

Here is the Ultramarine Army (I know, I know, but I do like the colors =) I thought I'd start painting

850 Company 1: Veteran Company
50 * Apotechary
100 Thunderhawk Gunship
100 Dreadnaught Squad

850 Company 2: Battle Company
500 * Warlord Titan
75 Carapace: Firecontrol center
125 Carapace: Warp Missle
100 Arm: Plasma Cannon
50 Arm: Vulkan megabolter

750 Company 3: Landraider Company
100 * Techmarine
200 Landspeeder Squad
150 Tarantula Battery

If anyone got a good 4000p Dark angels army they'd like to present that would be nice too =D





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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:46 pm 
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Welcome aboard, Malleus. I'm always glad to see a veteran player return to the fold.

NetEpic v5.2 I believe is NetEpic Gold, which will be a fully illustrated edition with various errata. It's release is temporarily on hold right now, but I'm sure we'll see it some time next year.

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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:16 pm 
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Nice to see someone new onboard.

Just a detail: the land raider Co is now at 750 pts, and the Battle Co at 850 (as it always has, I think).




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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:32 pm 
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Hi Malleus, welcome to TacComm

There's nothing wrong with Ultra Marines. Very tasty... most Tyranids think so.   :tongue:

Yep, Bro Capt Parzval beat me to the post with the points costs.
Can you give an idea what is behind your thinking on the units you have taken? I might be more able to give an opinion if I know roughly what you expect the units to do.

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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:18 pm 
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Quote: (Warhead @ 23 Dec. 2008, 16:32 )

Hi Malleus, welcome to TacComm

There's nothing wrong with Ultra Marines. Very tasty... most Tyranids think so.   :tongue:

Yep, Bro Capt Parzval beat me to the post with the points costs.
Can you give an idea what is behind your thinking on the units you have taken? I might be more able to give an opinion if I know roughly what you expect the units to do.

well.

Warlord is supposed to use the warpmissile and then FF the plasma cannon, using the vulcan only if there is enough infantry that needs to be killed

the landspeeders are supposed to support other units or going after poorly guarded units, hopefully I'll be able to atleast some times have em on FF behind cover and skimmer attack stuff,

The tarantulas are supposed to give me atleast SOME AA firepower

the Veterans are supposed to be my cracktroops, depending on terrain they can use their rhinos to charge stuff or garrison buildings, and 1 detachment is supposed to ride the thunderhawk to give instant support where nescecary.

the Devastators should be in some woods or something to suppress enemy troops

the Landraider company will be my mobile heavy firepower depending on terrain they can be on FF or advance orders

and with the point cost I've revised some units.. which means the Dreadnaughts are realy only there because they look cool and cost 100p =)


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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:08 pm 
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Oh btw, I also have alot of Eldars, tanks, titans and diffrent infantry / walkers / bikes etc and could use some help in constructing an army out of em (or perhaps 2-3 different types of armies even) for 4000p

Metal
9 Tempests
8 Deathstalker Prism Cannons
8 Wave Serpents
4 Warp Hunters
8 Doom Weavers
3 Fire Storm
3 Night Wings
3 Warlock Titans (Psychic Lance&P-First, 2xPsychic Lance, 2xPsychic Lance)
2 Phantom Titans (Heat Lance&D-Cannon, 2xPulsar) +2 Tremor-Cannons & 1 D-Cannon.
6 Warwalkers
1 Avatar

Plastic
23 Falcons
18 Vibro Cannons
5 Warlock Stands
30 Jetbike Stands
20 Vyper Jetbikes
19 Anti-Grav Lascannons
20 Dreadnoughts (Wraithlords)
8 Wraithguard Stands
4 Swooping Hawk Stands
4 Howling Banshee Stands
11 Striking Scorpion Stands
8 Dire Avenger Stands
7 Fire Dragon Stands
8 Exarch Stands
8 Harlequin Stands
8 Scout Stands
49 Guardian Stands
8 Dark Reaper Stands – missing 2 reapers.

+ 1 complete Defender host from the SM2 box (painted in saim haimm... guess they need repainting =)
+ alot of guardiansprues and some sprues with some special infs like perhaps 4 stands of swoopinghawks and banshees

An Siam Haimm army and an Alaitoc army (I think I have enough models to get 4 aditional scout stands)
and an Ulthiwe army, preferably without to much overlapp so I can field them "at the same time" ...
would be nice if 1 of them has the Tempest host card in it ...

Hope someone is up to the challange!





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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:31 pm 
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:oops: Damn! that is a nice load of Eldar you have.

Regards the SM list. Overall I think your plan covers most things and depending on your opponent should give you some options to chose from when play begins.

The Land Speeders are always good but hard to use for pop-up attacks. When I play a Ravenwing I end up using them as Cav units anyway but it's nice to have the ability.

Ever thought of replacing either the Vets OR the Battle Comp for a Company of Bikes AND a Company of Scouts? (You'll owe 50 points though) That way you can use the Scouts as cheap fodder to seize and hold Objectives while the Bikes cover the Oppositions Cavalry or threatens his back line stuff. I like using Scouts to slow down an enemy advance while my other stuff supports them.

The Titan weapons are fine too but I always find it hard to have weapons that can't fire when the Plasma Gun has fired. I prefer a close combat weapon but I usually fight Tyranids or Chaos so you can see why I would. I like the Fire Control Centre...  :sulk:  ...have you ever noticed that with the Plasma Gun or Destructor on one Carapace and the Fire Control Centre on the other you can hide your Warlord behind the small cardboard SM buildings and they can both see over it while the Titan remains out of sight?..  :whistle: (Warning! This may cause annoyed players).

The Land Raider Company is ok but not my thing and the Tech Marine isn't all it's cracked up to be but I'm unlucky with 5+ rolls. If I was facing this I would use my Bikes/Cav to pick them apart. 3 against 5 with equal Caf... with a points trade off of 5 vs. 8VP...

I love Dreadnoughts but they are a pain to get into the thick of it. If guarding Objectives they can be avoided or picked off. An opponent used a Thunderhawk to Air Drop his into my backline once and that worked a treat so it may be an idea.

Who/what are you going to be facing anyway? IG/Eldar/Chaos etc?

Hope this gives you some thoughts and I haven't just board you to tears.  :))




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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:50 pm 
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one more question, what loadouts do people usually have on Warlord Titans?
cheap ones as well as pricy ones...

Plasma Destructor + 2 Warp Missiles + Chain fist  = 900 p seems like a real ugly winner to place in the middle of an openish area..

in an more urban enviroment
Turbo Laser Destructor + Melta Cannon + Vulcan Megabolter + Chainfist = 700 p seem like a disgustingly good titan in a shortrange role, though that would mean I loose atleast 1 round of shooting on a Charge order first round most likely, and having the problem of getting my ass shot of ...


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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:57 pm 
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Quote: (Warhead @ 23 Dec. 2008, 18:31 )

:oops: Damn! that is a nice load of Eldar you have.

Regards the SM list. Overall I think your plan covers most things and depending on your opponent should give you some options to chose from when play begins.

The Land Speeders are always good but hard to use for pop-up attacks. When I play a Ravenwing I end up using them as Cav units anyway but it's nice to have the ability.

Ever thought of replacing either the Vets OR the Battle Comp for a Company of Bikes AND a Company of Scouts? (You'll owe 50 points though) That way you can use the Scouts as cheap fodder to seize and hold Objectives while the Bikes cover the Oppositions Cavalry or threatens his back line stuff. I like using Scouts to slow down an enemy advance while my other stuff supports them.

The Titan weapons are fine too but I always find it hard to have weapons that can't fire when the Plasma Gun has fired. I prefer a close combat weapon but I usually fight Tyranids or Chaos so you can see why I would. I like the Fire Control Centre...  :sulk:  ...have you ever noticed that with the Plasma Gun or Destructor on one Carapace and the Fire Control Centre on the other you can hide your Warlord behind the small cardboard SM buildings and they can both see over it while the Titan remains out of sight?..  :whistle: (Warning! This may cause annoyed players).

The Land Raider Company is ok but not my thing and the Tech Marine isn't all it's cracked up to be but I'm unlucky with 5+ rolls. If I was facing this I would use my Bikes/Cav to pick them apart. 3 against 5 with equal Caf... with a points trade off of 5 vs. 8VP...

I love Dreadnoughts but they are a pain to get into the thick of it. If guarding Objectives they can be avoided or picked off. An opponent used a Thunderhawk to Air Drop his into my backline once and that worked a treat so it may be an idea.

Who/what are you going to be facing anyway? IG/Eldar/Chaos etc?

Hope this gives you some thoughts and I haven't just board you to tears.  :))

well I will be facing Eldar to start with, but I want the army to be tournament friendly, I dont generally like making lists that are geared to fighting 1 type or army, Im more of a generalist, even though that makes it damn hard sometimes...

And while it might be hard to use the Landraiders I rather like the model (even the old ones I have of which I have 36... =)

Im thinking of making a Dark angel army of the rest of the marineforce I have lying around.. as I have easily enough for a full ravenwing + extra speeder/bikes squads, and 14 Terminator stands should get me a Deathwing company, and supporting it with the 2 remaining Warlords or something..

I dont have any Scout stands, but I have some Assault marines without jumppacks (or perhaps they are the scouts..., but hardly a full company of them  :rock:


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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:28 am 
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For any Marine list that can take them, the Devastator Company is a mandatory first pick.  I generally almost always include either a Scout or Bike company too for cheapness and speed, though if you play Dark Angels then the Ravenwing is also a mandatory pick.  Then mix and match for taste and opponent.  4000 points against Eldar/Tau/Misc shooty army:

Devestators - 1000
Ravenwing   - 500
Battle      - 850
- T-Bolts   - 250
Tactical    - 750
Reaver with Quake/Volcano mix.

I love the Deathwing company but I do find that against a shooty army they are a liability and can lose me games.  The same applies to LR Companies against Eldar.  The Devs are awesome...you can cover the entire length of the board with your 4 detachments and blow away pesky popping up Eldar/Tau tanks.  The Tacs and Assaults are to grab and hold objectives.  The Titan has to have ultra-long range weapons to survive against Eldar, and Quakes give you an option to take out buildings.  I might take out the Tactical and swap for Scouts + 3 T-Hawks if I were playing for sheep stations, but I find that a little cheesy for a friendly game.

Standard 4K Eldar is a no-brainer for me.  

Defender Warhost
+ Tempest detachment
Jetbike Host
+ Nightwings
Spirit Host
+ Doomweavers
Phantom (twin Pulsar, mixed wings 700)
+ 450 points of misc (I'd typically go for 2x Dire Avengers, 1 Scouts, 1 Vibrocannon: or Harlies + Wave Serpent & Vibrocannon)

Then some mix and match options.  Drop the Spirit host for an upgrade to a Tempest Host against Squats.  Drop the Tempests for Exarchs + a bodyguard of Swooping Hawks against horde armies.  Fiddle around with the Titan options...Warlock vs Chaos, Tremor Cannon vs Orks (so cool to blow up the Gutbuster first turn :) ).  Aspects in Vampires + Swooping Hawk horde for Deep Strike fun against static armies  :laugh:

You have enough Eldar to make 3 armies pretty easily.  I think to make Saim Haimm you'll want some Revenants though.  I'd make an Alaitoc army similar to the above with a Tempest host, a Saim-Haimm jetbike army and maybe an army centred around a Phantom Titan Host (if you can borrow some Phantom heads).

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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:45 am 
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Oh, and to answer some specific questions:

- Version 5.2 lists are the interim updated version 5.0 lists that include the errata that will be in the Gold versions when they are released.  You can find them on the NetEpic Yahoo Group.

- There is a pinned topic above with links to some awesome army cards.

- Loadout on a Warlord.  Here's some of my scaries:

- Plasma Destructor, FCC, Wrecker, Chainfist  (4 shots to 100cms hitting on 2+, with a -6...what's not to like!): 750 points
- Carapace Landing pad, Deathstrike, MRL x2, Chainfist: 750 points
- Warp, Quake x2, Volcano: 900 points  (I usually use Reavers for this type of loadout though)
- Turbo Laser Destructor x4: 800 points (again, works better on a Reaver)

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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:40 am 
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Absolutely, Zap has covered most issues well I think.

Weapons load for Warlord Titan? I either get assaulted by chainsaw wielding Chaos Scout Titans or Bio-Titans so my personal all round bog standard choice is...

Arms #1: Chain Fist (+25) - everybody should have an extra D6 Caf.
Arms #2: Wrecker (+25) - you get to have a free attack with the Wrecker before close combat and
Carapace #1: Fire Control Centre (+75)
Carapace #2: Plasma Cannon (+100)
Rear Carapace Carapace Multi Lasers(+10)
Head: Close Combat (+15)
Warlord Titan 500 + 250 = 750 points.
17+3D6 Caf (Plus extra free attack before combat)  :devil:
Even when it fires it can still move and do stuff but can't fire other ranged weapons.

I tend to leave the lighter weapons that can be taken for Scout Titans on my Scout Titans. They're better at it and I use Deathstrikes for Missiles when playing IG.

I dont have any Scout stands, but I have some Assault marines without jumppacks (or perhaps they are the scouts..., but hardly a full company of them  

I just used the old style Marines painted a certain way for my Scouts. I painted mine before I knew how to paint but you get the idea. Anything goes so long as the other players know what they are.




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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:01 pm 
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thanks for all the input, still havent gotten anywhere with the Eldar armies but I did finish my Squat 4000p army as:

750 Warlord Brotherhood
100 * Living Ancestor

400 Grand Battery
150 Thudd gun Battery

700 Air Attack Corps
500 * Colossus

600 Guildbike Company

600 Guildbike Company
200 Bike squadron

pretty much the way I used to play in SM2, though I had to swithc out my Goliath mega cannon as its 175p just hurt my eyes as I dont have anything to fill those last 25p =/

No idea how it will work in netepic 5 though, in the sm2 days I could pretty much charge a great gargant with a guildbike company and kill it most of the time, now with alternate activation Im wondering if Im to light on defensive fire...
the brotherhood will have to remain pretty static and be close support / area denial together with the grand battery...

still wondering if I should have included my gyrocopter squad or goliath somehow...

what do you all think? as allways they its supposed to be a generalist army in a tournament setting
I never did like all the "this rule is for playing army X" rules =)

// Malleus


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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:50 pm 
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I think it has more to do with how you play the army than what you picked, although that does play a part in how well you do.

in the sm2 days I could pretty much charge a great gargant with a guildbike company and kill it most of the time,

I would not try this now (v5) as the Titan/Gargants all come with a Titan Point Defence and only small units that survive a 3+ to hit roll (-0TSM) get to fight in close combat against a Titan/Gargant. (I love this rule but think Tyranids should get some sort of bonus to overwhelm bigger units).

Hopefully some of the others will be along soon and they have far more experience than I do with Squats.

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 Post subject: Returning Epic player needs some Army advice
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:13 pm 
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Thanks warhead, yes it does seem like a lost way of war =)

I made a Saim-Hann Army that seems fun to play atleast, what do you guys think about it?
(why im trying to get some working armies is because Im going to paint these modells and want them painted in traditional armycolors)

650 Windrider host
125 * Warlock on bike

650 Windrider host
125 * Warlock on bike
500 Tempest Squad

450 Falcon host
720 * Warlock Titan with 2x Tremor Cannon & 2x Winglasers

150 Doomweaver Squadron
150 Doomweaver Squadron
150 Doomweaver Squadron
150 Doomweaver Squadron
150 Striking Scorpions Squad

== 3970 p

the tremor cannons will be my heavyhitter, with the doomweavers as areadenial + infantry killers while the falconhost tries to fins cover they can skimmer attack from and the windriders charges around best they can and lastly the warlocks will try to mindlock something hideous most likely (or put out an eldritch storm to hide an exposed flank)
The Striking scorpions will be mounted in a Falcon Detachment and be my BuildingObject Chargers if need be...

workable?





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