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Demolisher, Macro or No
Yes 55%  55%  [ 22 ]
No 38%  38%  [ 15 ]
Other 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 40

Demolisher, Macro or No
Markconz
 Post subject: Demolisher, Macro or No
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:34 am 
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(Niblebitzer @ Aug. 23 2007,10:05)
QUOTE
How come MW is better than speedup, walker, IC and FF?

There are dozens of pages of threads spanning years  debating such issues, in case you missed it...

Anyone who wants to change it, you first need to convince the majority of the epic community to swing their vote away from MW. Then you actually have to get a consensus towards something else. Good luck with that.

I'd also recommend to anyone who wants to pursue such a course, that overly dramatic and exaggerated statements about the potential problems MW might cause will likely have the opposite effect to that intended.  As I stated here - the power of it is not nearly as bad as some people would like to pretend it is.

After 3 years, I've made up my mind, and it looks like most people have too. Feel free to continue to debate this if you want, but I don't see any point in continuing to do so at this point.

Have fun.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Demolisher, Macro or No
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:39 am 
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How come MW is better than speedup, walker, IC and FF?


Because taken in totality that set of upgrades makes the Vindicator unrepresentative.

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Niblebitzer
 Post subject: Demolisher, Macro or No
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:18 pm 
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debating such issues, in case you missed it...

I have read em all, no worries.

Anyone who wants to change it, you first need to convince the majority of the epic community to swing their vote away from MW. Then you actually have to get a consensus towards something else. Good luck with that.
Majority as 14 of 25 votes. Total 25 votes is kinda convincing. I dont have to change minds of consensus, it is enough that I lay doubt over decicion.

After 3 years, I've made up my mind, and it looks like most people have too. Feel free to continue to debate this if you want, but I don't see any point in continuing to do so at this point.
I have been watching how you have made up your mind in urge to get armylists finished for your updated rulebook.

Have fun.
I wish you same.

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Niblebitzer
 Post subject: Demolisher, Macro or No
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:29 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Aug. 23 2007,11:39)
QUOTE
How come MW is better than speedup, walker, IC and FF?


Because taken in totality that set of upgrades makes the Vindicator unrepresentative.

Does it?

Speedup to make it equivalent to rhino chassis.
Walker for having bulldozer to clear way.
IC, it allready has one on old weapon stats, so nothing new here.
FF is most problematic but being as good as with devastators  it isnt that huge after all. Huge IC cannon versus some bolter fire and heavy weapon.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Demolisher, Macro or No
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:35 pm 
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Hena said:
Edit: Just in case you missed the point. That is not sufficient to change things.


Nibleblitzer said:
I have been watching how you have made up your mind in urge to get armylists finished for your updated rulebook.


@ Nibleblitzer and Hena - Yes I have a deadline. Yes I want army lists and rules finalised. After 3 years I am not waiting around forever. If I was prepared to do that I might as well just wait for the ERC.

If you are unhappy with procedures in how I am making the handbook as you seem to be, perhaps you have some specific changes you would like to see on the matter...? Better yet perhaps you could show everyone how it should be done by actually making something useful for others yourself?

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not that attached to anything, just throwing out commonly proposed solutions to long standing problems that have been debated to death, and getting people to discuss and vote on them.  In most cases there are several good enough solutions that could improve the situaiton, it's just a matter of picking ONE.

Like I said you don't like the MW solution here - all you have to do is swing majority support to another single proposal on this issue. Simple. Except that going by the previous history of debate on this issue I doubt it will be simple and that is a real problem for you.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Demolisher, Macro or No
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:43 pm 
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Hena:

I think what you're avoiding here is that a majority of voters are behind MW, while those who voted 'no' are split between a whole bunch of different proposals.

The vote looks like a mandate to me, at least for now.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Demolisher, Macro or No
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:08 pm 
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Amost everyone agrees a change needs to be made Hena - that's the primary change. Secondarily there is disagreement over exactly what change should be made, because many people have their own pet ideas. Nonetheless out of many good enough proposals (many of which would be ok), MW is liked by a majority. It's like E&C says, the 'no' votes here are split between a range of different options -  and you are avoiding that important issue.

Your preferred procedure in this case would be to do nothing.

Ok. I've considered your preferred procedure and I reject it.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Demolisher, Macro or No
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:19 pm 
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*Slaps forehead with palm*

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Markconz
 Post subject: Demolisher, Macro or No
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:22 pm 
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(Hena @ Aug. 23 2007,13:15)
QUOTE
"Ok. I've considered your preferred procedure and I reject it."
That statement is rather interesting in more ways than one. I am able to change my opinion and accept situations that change. I can not like things, but accept them if they have enough support.

I reject your view of doing nothing in a situation where a change is clearly favoured, and one version of the change is clearly favoured over any other version. That is all.

Thankfully you nor I aren't able to make changes to main lists on SG :).


Sure about that are you?     :cool:

(But more to the point who even cares given the current state of SG?)

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Niblebitzer
 Post subject: Demolisher, Macro or No
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:07 pm 
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If you are unhappy with procedures in how I am making the handbook as you seem to be, perhaps you have some specific changes you would like to see on the matter...? Better yet perhaps you could show everyone how it should be done by actually making something useful for others yourself?

Please do finish your work but in mean time stop acting like arrogant kid. 'Stop whining, do something useful, my way or highway, bla bla'

You have reached fanatic state where nothing else matters and reasoning goes to deaf ears.

What comes to making something useful I just wish I had time but someone has to do my work, pay my mortage and finish my school for me first. Not to mention family and kids. You could lend me lets say 3 hours a day for something useful?

Ill use your rulebook and vault lists, solution where we can move on. "Nothing to see here folks. Move along..." - Officer Barbrady, South Park

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