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OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
zap123
 Post subject: OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:47 am 
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(Mojarn Piett @ Mar. 27 2007,08:41)
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(zap123 @ Mar. 27 2007,04:45)
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After further thought, I really like the approach taken with the Nightlords. ?I've sometimes thought it would be good if the CSM Legions had a selection of their own unique Company cards.


Yee-haa! Someone who agrees with me! ?:p


- Nightlords could keep the standard "3 detachments of marines" one, and the new one can be a Nightlord Battle Century, and they could get third company card full of Landspeeder detachments. ?


Hm. The battle century might be better suited to Black Legion. How about some kind of Raptor unit? The landspeeder company is ?very powerful. I think it should be at least a special card, perhaps even unique special card (i.e. only one could be fielded).


- Alpha legion keeps the standard Century, and get an Infiltration Century with a detachment of CSMs, one of Cultist Infiltrators, and one of Engineers.


You've read either my thoughts or my posts at the Epic Armageddon HQ. ?:;):


- Black Legion - new Century with 2 dets of CSMs and one of Obliterators.


See above.


- Iron Warriors get the standard century, plus a Seige Century with Bombards, Basks, Iron Dreadnoughts led by a Warsmith; and a Vindicator Company.


I wouldn't give Iron Warriors Bombards. Vindicator company is OK, though. Siege Dreadnought formation would be cool.


- Word Bearers.....hmm, no great idea here. ?Copy of the Death Company concept maybe??


Some kind of lightly armed cultist formation. Basically rabble but insanely fanatic with 75% break point instead of the normal 50%. Or a cultist formation with normal break point but very few VP to represent their status as glorious sacrifices.

Increased access to (lesser) daemons as well as the Word Bearers are in good standing with all of the ruinous powers.
As a general principle, how about the new Centuries pay full price for all their detachments, and infantry based ones get a free Aspiring Champion as their company HQ.

Nightlords - I used the term Battle Company to describe OzT's version of the Century with 1 detachment of CSM, 1 of Veterans, and 1 of Raptors.

IG get a Landspeeder company already.  Nightlord one would need to be quite expensive due to much higher Morale.  Actually I suspect the NL Landspeeder detachment should be 200-250 points, and the Company 700+.  An all Raptor Co. would work too.

Alpha Legion - looks like we've solved that one :).  Do we design a third Century for them?

Black Legion - I'll defer to your superior Black Legion knowledge.

Iron Warriors - they already get Bombards as a support card, so I didn't think it was a stretch.  Maybe a Seige Dreadnought company instead then...3 detachments of Iron Dreads + a Warsmith CO.  Also a Vindicator Company...say 500 points so they get nothing for free. (did we work out the cost for the Chaos Marine Vindicators.....I assume 150 like we decided for Marines?

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primarch
 Post subject: OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:15 am 
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(zap123 @ Mar. 26 2007,22:22)
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I've given the Iron Warriors a few runs lately.  They are probably the most different after the NightLords (with the +2VP and quite strong Reward card) and they still seem balanced and well costed.  Their Chaos reward is fairly tame, and the 6+ regen is so infrequent that you can't rely on it, and doesn't make much difference overall.  The army has nothing you couldn't get by taking a powers Century, some CSM stuff and Imperial allies really.  It would be neat if they had some more Legion specific company cards, but it's not a big thing.

We did have one question on their regen ability.  If you build an Iron Warriors army, and you take a Terminator Company from the Chaos Marine list, would the Terminators get the Regen ability?  Easy to argue either way, but I didn't know what the original intent was.

Hi!

I don't know enough of the background, but given thier cost, I'd say give it to them.

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primarch
 Post subject: OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:16 am 
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(OzTenaka @ Mar. 27 2007,06:20)
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all good ideas it will add a lot more flavour to those armies.

Chaos book needs a lot of work :)

Hi!

Over the years chaos ALWAYS regenerates a lot of work.....  :;):

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OzTenaka
 Post subject: OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:01 pm 
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Daemon Horde Company (Troll + Minotaur Warbands) maybe too cheap

Individual units are 250 ea while Company for two is 400
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zap123
 Post subject: OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:42 pm 
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Eh, companies should be cheap....they are rarely the sum of their detachment costs.....400 seems ok, it is quite small, and it does have Trolls.  Now if it were 2 detachments of Minotaurs it might be a different matter........... :D

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primarch
 Post subject: OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:18 am 
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Hi!

I'd keep it at that cost. With no ranged weapons its a challenge to even get them into melee range.

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OzTenaka
 Post subject: OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:56 pm 
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Okay after Endless Hours of work (okay I copied and pasted what other people said above pretty much  :p) I came up with the following companies to add to the Traitor legions.

Alpha Legion

2 Options
1. Infiltration Century
Chaos Champion
Chaos Marine Veteran Detachment ( I felt that the marines have already come ahead to activate the cultists so should have infiltrate as well)
Cultist Infiltration Detachment
Combat Engineer Detachment

Cost: 550 Break Point:9 VP:6

2. Irregular Mob (can only take Cultist Named Support Cards but can select from Standard Chaos list too)
Aspiring Champion
2 Cultist Infiltration Detachments
Combat Engineer Detachment

Cost: 450 Break Point: 9 VP:5

and perhaps a standard Battle Century
with Champion, 1 x Havok, 1x CM and 1 x Raptor
for 650 BP:8 VP:7

Black Legion

Black Legion Battle Century

Chaos Champion
2 Chaos Marine Detachments
1 Obliterator Detachment

Cost: 700 BP:8 VP:7

Iron Warriors

Seige Dreadnought Century

Warsmith (comes with Rhino)
3 Iron Dreadnought Detachments

Cost:900 BP:9 VP:9

Vindicator Company
3 Vindicator Detachments

Cost: 450 (each detachment is 150) BP:5 VP:5

Night Lords

Battle Century
Chaos Champion
Chaos Marine Veteran Detachment
Chaos Marine Detachment
Fury Detachment

Cost: 600 BP:8 VP:6

Word Bearers

Devotional Century (can take Lesser Daemon support cards from their chosen power).

Dark Apostle (comes with Rhino)
2 Chaos Marine Detachments
1 Lesser Daemon Detachment (Choose Bloodletters, Plaguebearers, Daemonettes or Horrors - all cost 150)

Cost: 550 BP:9 VP: 6

I didn't give them a Cultist unit as suggested as they are prohibited from using cultists
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zap123
 Post subject: OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:56 am 
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I like them.  Couple of questions/suggestions:

Alpha Legion:  Standard Battle Company.  I like this.  I see most of the other Legions get something similar.....neat.

Iron Warriors:  Seige Century - could we swap out one detachment of Dreads for either Havoks (preferred) or Basilisks (Iron Hands precedent)?  Makes it a bit more Iron Warriors equivalent ofthe battle company concept.... "seige battle company".  Also easier to make from a practical view point.

Vindicators - no command unit?  Bit too Eldary....give them either a Command Vindicator, Warsmith or even an Aspiring Champ as HQ just so they follow convention.

Nightlords - Maybe an "assault" century full of Fury detachments?

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OzTenaka
 Post subject: OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:12 pm 
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Can Do Zap

I think the Havoks work well - The Iron Hands get a lot of Dev Marines so to follow the mirroring idea

Warsmith comes with a Rhino so it works fairly well with the Vindicators too - but I would probably push the cost to 550/550
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zap123
 Post subject: OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:25 pm 
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Yeah, bump up the cost to 550...shouldn't get much for free, if for nothing else than to just ensure balance.

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primarch
 Post subject: OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:27 am 
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Hi!

Sounds agreeable to me.

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zap123
 Post subject: OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:56 am 
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I think these will make the extra Traitor Legions much more well rounded and individual, like their loyalist bretheren.   Also more interesting to model!

Feel free to stop where we are, but I am a lot rusty on GW Cannon/Fluff so I did some extra web research.  Sketchy information out there without access tp print materials I guess, but some interesting snippets:

Alpha Legion:  After reading the somewhat thin available fluff (decent Wikipeadia article though) looks like these guys are about right.

Black Legion:  Didn't get much off the web about specialist unit or design.  GW say they can use any unit.  Did see one mention of the use of Teleporting Terminators to take out enemy C&C.  Maybe they could get a detachment of Terminators with Deep strike?

Night Lords: In addition to Speeders and Furies, they also use lots of Bikes.  Maybe a standard CSM Bike Company in the Nightlords name might be a good addition?

Iron Warriors:  In possession of a Leviathan and use Termites.  Also make lots of use of Obliterators.  Are expert sappers/engineers (stand to reason).  If I read the various bits right, their Primarch Perturabo is still kicking too.  Could ignore the Obliterator bit I suppose, but a Leviathan as a Unique Special card would be way cool  :p

Word Bearers:  Their primarch Lorgar (sp?) is still alive too I think.  Seems like they count on standard CSMs and lessor daemons, so looks like we have this lot about right.

Any chance of doing Primarchs for those still kicking do you think...or is that getting a bit too adventurous?

One other thought, it might be worth while adding an Obliterator detachment to the Standards CSM list now the Black Legion get them in a company card.  Also, I assume the expectation is that these Centuries will get the standard Reward card for that Legion.

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Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:26 am 
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(OzTenaka @ Mar. 31 2007,23:56)
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Word Bearers

Devotional Century (can take Lesser Daemon support cards from their chosen power).

Dark Apostle (comes with Rhino)
2 Chaos Marine Detachments
1 Lesser Daemon Detachment (Choose Bloodletters, Plaguebearers, Daemonettes or Horrors - all cost 150)

Cost: 550 BP:9 VP: 6

I didn't give them a Cultist unit as suggested as they are prohibited from using cultists

Why are Word Bearers prohibited from using cultists? Their main interest is to convert people away from the Imperial Cult.  ???

Furthermore, they truly worship the Chaos as an undivided whole, not just the big four but all the lesser entities as well, so they don't choose any patrons. Otherwise the devotional century sounds very good and shows nicely the favour they have.

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OzTenaka
 Post subject: OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:06 pm 
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In the Rules it says prohibited units "Cultists of any kind"

I was meaning by chosen power that they could take more lesser daemon support cards to match the same power/type as the unit in the century.

i.e If they took Bloodletters then they could also get fleshounds as a support card

Beasts of Nurgle if they had taken plague.

I just didn't think mixing powers would be the right way to go.
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zap123
 Post subject: OMG CHAOS LIST errata/Rules issues
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:20 am 
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I think restricting the Devotional Century to the 4 main types of Lessor Daemons is ok....they do all have the same point cost which helps balance.  I also think additional Daemon support cards should match the power selected.....but if the Word Bearers work differently in 40K I could be convinced otherwise I suppose.  Shouldn't stop multiple Centuries picking different powers maybe.

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