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AI to E:A

robertsjf

Post subject: AI to E:A

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:44 pm

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Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:00 am
Posts: 11
Location: Texas

Hi! I had a few ideas I wanted to throw to the board and get some feedback on. Ever since I picked up AI I was happy to have another game in which I used my Epic flyers. I like the systems for it's simplicity. I began reading other posts about he game and the fact that this looks like we'll never see a proper Air War supplement for E:A and wondered what I could do to mesh the 2 systems. Now, I'm not talking about full integration. If anything I'm talking about simply playing both games at once on the same table and trying to figure out how they will mesh in the few points the systems touch (ground attacks, AA). I'd like to present the following to all of you to see what you think. How could it be tightened up, issues, things of that nature. Feel free to take what you want, if you like some of the ideas, or discard the whole thing and look at it as a perfect example of how to not mesh the two systems together. Without further ado (hope it formats ok):
Objective:
To work out a system where I can play Aeronautica Imperialis and Epic: Armageddon on the same table and have them interact in some format.

Method:
By not fully integrating the two systems, merely layering one over the other. This will be broken into points:

Point 1) Army Lists: Air units are to be chosen from the AI army list while ground units are bought from the E:A list. This does promote Valkyries and Vultures to full flyer status.

Point 2) AI to E:A Turn Ration: 3 AI turns to every E:A turn. The rationale behind this is that an aircraft at thrust 9 moves all of 45cm per turn. My ork boyz on foot can march 30cm. The Flyboyz told me that don?t work out. Any ground unit that can participate in AI can do so for the full 3 turns, but sacrifice their E:A turn entirely

Point 3) Air to Ground attacks: Air to Air and Ground to Air use the AI system, Air to Ground attacks use ammo as normal but the munitions undergo a magic transformation. I have a list of weapons for conversion (to be included below) but would like to use as an example a Thunderbolt with weapon load 2:
Quad Autocannons: Range: 30cm Firepower: 2x AP4+/AT5+
Twin Lascannons: Range 15cm-45cm Firepower: AT4+
Hellstrike Missiles: Range 45cm Firepower: AT4+
Of course the Thunderbolt only gets to use the autocannons 4 times, the lascannons 3 times and the missiles 2 times.

Conversion Table: Please note, the table was calculated by cross referencing a weapon systems E:A stat and their AI stat. I have yet to give it a good playtest. Let me know if you try it what works and what doesn?t

Imperial Weapon Systems:
Range Firepower
Autocannon45cm AP5+/AT6+
2 Autocannons30cm AP4+/AT5+
Quad Autocannons30cm 2xAP4+/AT5+
6 Autocannons30cm 3xAP4+/AT5+
Twin Lascannon15cm-45cm AT4+
Multilaser 30cm AP5+/AT6+
Heavy Bolter30cm AP5+
Twin Assault Cannons30cm 2xAP5+/AT5+
Hellstrike Missile45cm AT4+
Hellstrike Missile (MD)45cm 2xAT4+
Rocket Pods30cm 1 BP, Disrupt
4 point Bombs15cm 1 BP
6 point Bombs15cm 1 BP, Disrupt
8 point Bombs15cm 2 BP
12 point bombs15cm 2 BP, Disrupt

Ork Weapon Systems:
Range Firepower
Quad Big Shootas30cm 2xAP6+/AT6+
Rokkits 15cm-45cm AT5+
2 point Bombs15cm AP6+/AT6+, Disrupt
4 point Bombs15cm 1 BP
6 point Bombs15cm 1 BP, Disrupt
Grot Bombs---- MW5+, Disrupt

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robertsjf

Post subject: AI to E:A

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:48 pm

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Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:00 am
Posts: 11
Location: Texas

A few questions about the points I'd like to get some additional feedback on:

Point 1) By seperating the army lists, is flak too readily available? What about dedicated transports like the Valkyrie, too much of a resource drain on the AI point allowance?

Point 2) Aircraft get to unload on poor epic armies 3 to 1. Is that too much? Will the air defences counter balance that? What about the opposition's air force, aren't they supposed to stop any gound attacks? Will the ammo limitations help counter balance the whole thing?

Grot bombs: anyone have a better idea of how to treat them?

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Legion 4

Post subject: AI to E:A

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:18 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36947
Location: Ohio - USA

Here's my only insights. And let me temper that with, the fact that we dropped all CAP from Epic. Only CAS and AAA/ADA ... We feel that Epic (been playing since '90) is a Ground Forces/ Combat game with CAS, Ortillery & Titans in support ... The problem, IMO, is an Epic/AI game that would last a long, long time ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

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robertsjf

Post subject: AI to E:A

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:36 pm

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Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:00 am
Posts: 11
Location: Texas

It would. And to be honest I also avoided using flyers in my epic games (my first set was the Space Marine rulset that came with SM, Orks and Eldar, find 2 other folks that want the two other armies and trade, I wound up with Eldar). This is a "what if" exercise and would really only work at some of the lower point settings. I couldn't imagine a 6000 point epic/300 point AI games. I'd be old and gray before it was finished. But at a smaller scale, say 2/3000-100/150, despite the length, could it work and would it do so in a satisfying manner?

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Legion 4

Post subject: AI to E:A

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:41 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36947
Location: Ohio - USA

Oh Yes, I agree ... a smaller game, should work ... IMO. Other guys here, have mention an Epic/AI interface before ... but time appears to be the only big problem ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

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orangesm

Post subject: AI to E:A

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:45 pm

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Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:50 pm
Posts: 482
Location: Greater Los Angeles Area, CA

There is kinda CAP in Epic - but it is to intercept the CAS. I am of the opinion is that a good integrated campaign would be the best way to have both games involved.

A game of AI before the Epic game that is an opportunity to take out some of the Armor before it even gets to the battle field (interdiction). That is a direct effect. A good map campaign with a regional focus would be great for Epic & AI (with a touch of 40k:Kill Team).

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robertsjf

Post subject: AI to E:A

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:15 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:00 am
Posts: 11
Location: Texas

(orangesm @ Mar. 25 2007,19:45)

QUOTE

A game of AI before the Epic game that is an opportunity to take out some of the Armor before it even gets to the battle field (interdiction). ?That is a direct effect. ?A good map campaign with a regional focus would be great for Epic & AI (with a touch of 40k:Kill Team).

And you're right, with a good campaign system I can tie all 4 40k games together (BFG, E:A, 40K, AI). But I'm fascinated with the fact that E:A and AI use the same scale. I can not try and play a game of 40k and epic on the same table. I can not play BFG and epic on the same table, either. I could play on seperate tables and link the effects (ie have that cruiser move to the epic table once it reaches the planet). But nothing says "Hey, we might be able to fit together" like Epic and AI. Might be impossible, might be convuluted, but I want to try it, this is how I would, are there any obvious, glaring issues with the above assumptions? It could be broken from the start but assuming it could work, anything stand out that might be altered to make it work more smoothly?

That's the whole thing. Make 2 games the same scale and you're throwing down the gauntlet...

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orangesm

Post subject: AI to E:A

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:49 pm

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Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:50 pm
Posts: 482
Location: Greater Los Angeles Area, CA

Very true...

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Legion 4

Post subject: AI to E:A

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:45 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36947
Location: Ohio - USA

CAP was first added to the game with E40K ... and E:A improved on it ... but again we feel CAS vs. ADA is the way to go, as I said. We also, use the excellent SM1 Off Board Support(OBS) system, instead on the E:A - BFG interface. Keeping it simple, by standardizing - 33% of your total battleforce level (TBL) can be spent on CAS, Titans, Ortillery = OBS ... Dropping CAP and confining things to Ground Forces (AFVs, Grunts [in various forms], FA, and now AAA/ADA - 66% TBL) supported by CAS, OBS, Titans - 33% TBL, is the way to go. After playing over 100 Epic games since '90 ... Adding a strategic MAPX ... goes farther away from our intent, of playing a BN Level (+ or -) ground battle with supporting elements, as I stated previously. But within a 4-6 hour period per day. And as always ... DWWFY !

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

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