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Gue'senshi Air List
Nerroth
 Post subject: Gue'senshi Air List
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:19 am 
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Hi!


In order to mirror what you see in my Gue'senshi army list for Epic, I'd (for now) suggest the following:

Note that I'm not going to list the points costs - they will be the same as in the AI book - in case FW get annoyed!

------

GUE'SENSHI AIR CADRE, v1

Fighters

Barracuda (including option for additional weapons load)

Valkyrie (including a.w.l. NOTE: May NOT include Jump Troops)

Vulture (including a.w.l.) 0-1 per Valkyrie

Bombers

Tiger Shark

Orca (including a.w.l. - Jump Troops may be included, representing supporting Tau units, or the XV29 HQ)

0-1 Manta (including a.w.l.)

Ground Defences

Hydra

Sky Ray

------

How is that so far?


Gary




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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Gue'senshi Air List
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:11 am 
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I guess that, with this list, you are essentially saying that the 'old' Imperial Guard drop troops are put to service for the Tau - since they are the only onles that get Valkyries/Vultures. Why have you included these, and not the Thunderbolt? To me, it would seem more logical to have the more 'common' aircraft and not the more specialised ones.

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orangesm
 Post subject: Gue'senshi Air List
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:04 pm 
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I would make some changes that would make it feel more like it is a Human Air Defense Force with Tau backing.

------
GUE'SENSHI AIR CADRE, v1b

Fighters
Barracuda (including option for additional weapons load)
Thunderbolt

Bombers
Tiger Shark
Orca (including a.w.l. - Jump Troops may be included, representing supporting Tau units, or the XV29 HQ)

Ground Defences
Hydra
Sky Ray
------

The Thunderbolt is the mainstay of the human PDF Air Corp on non major worlds. The Lightning is replaced by the Barracuda as the offensive air to air fighter.  The Hydra is added as this again is a mainstay of the human PDF.  I would almost consider dropping the Sky Ray to make it more Human.  The Orca is kept as the Human Auxiliaries may provide escort behind the main lines.

I am fully aware that you are the Champion of the Gue'senshi, but it is good to remember that they are a supporting force to the Tau and would be delegated to less crucial missions or rear echelon defense.

Mantas are to valuable to front line Tau units to have the Second Class humans defend.  The Valkyries and Vultures are elite Imperial equipment that would be rare and does not seem to fit with the Tau use of the Gue'senshi.

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Nerroth
 Post subject: Gue'senshi Air List
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:19 pm 
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See the thing is, the Airborne Grenadier Companies from the Epic list (wth Valkyries and Vultures) are at the core of the Kleistian army concept - that the establishment of new regiments in the Kleist system post-Protectorate would be based around fewer yet better armed units.

The reasoning was that the industrial base on Kleist itself was used to create local equivalents of the V+V (or that enough samples were captured on this and other worlds - such as T'ros - to allow the Tau to reverse-engineer them) - but that only certain other vehicle types (such as Hydras, Chimerae and Russes) were also capable of being produced... for the time being, at least.

Plus, the Empire is not short of Barracudas, and perhaps the Air Caste would prefer to keep control over the fighter and bomber craft attached to Kleist (and where the Grenadiers would be deployed on other worlds, it would allow for ready integration with pre-existing Barracuda formations).

The Manta is there to allow for the transport and deployment of Tetra-Piranha recon formations, Stingray missile tanks, and the odd Airborne Grenadier Company - or for use by the Gue'senshi'O and his teams of XV29 Zashis.

And one thing to remember - unlike the Imperium, the Tau have relatively few worlds with a population of more than a billion, either as major Sept planets or as allied member home worlds. Plus, the Kleist system, with 7 billion on 3 inhabited worlds, is the first time the Tau have actually had to deal with such a large human populace all at once. And the borders of the Imperium are not that far away... The Tau would not leave the defence of Kleist to chance - and raising Gue'senshi regiments is (to them) an optimal means of drawing on the resources available in-system.


Gary

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orangesm
 Post subject: Gue'senshi Air List
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:34 pm 
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To me (sadly have not yet gotten the book grrr.... ) the list you proposed looks like the Tau list with Vultures and Valkyries added.  If you want to represent the Elite Airborne Cadres from Kleist then the list would have the Vultures, Valkyries, & Orca but no Manta.  I believe this would be reserved for Tau Hunter Cadres who would not lower themselves to flying in the Imperial Valkyries.  If you are looking to represent a Human Air Cadre, whose primary purpose is Air Operations and not strike missions like the Airborne Grenadier Cadres, then drop the Valkyries & Vultures, add the Thunderbolt (and maybe Marauder) to the list while keeping the Manta out.

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Nerroth
 Post subject: Gue'senshi Air List
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:11 pm 
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Well, given that I see the Tau reserving the Air Cadre duties for themselves (mostly), the list would be for the Airborne Companies - so your first option sounds fair.

And one could deploy 'allied' air wings to rep the two groups working in tandem, anyway.

OK - here's v2:

GUE'SENSHI ASSAULT CADRE, v2

Fighters

Barracuda (including option for additional weapons load)
Valkyrie (including a.w.l. NOTE: May NOT include Jump Troops)
Vulture (including a.w.l.) 0-1 per Valkyrie

Bombers

Tiger Shark
Orca (including a.w.l. - Jump Troops may be included, representing supporting Tau units, or the XV29 HQ)

Ground Defences

Hydra
Sky Ray

------

Better?

I'm guessing I should leave out the AX-1-0, since it's not in my Epic list, and would be a more specialised craft anyway.


Gary




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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Gue'senshi Air List
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:24 pm 
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(Nerroth @ Jan. 22 2007,17:11)
QUOTE
I'm guessing I should leave out the AX-1-0, since it's not in my Epic list, and would be a more specialised craft anyway.

I agree. The AX-1-0 would be called in for specific missions, and probably not the kind of missions that the auxiliary would be primarily designed for.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Gue'senshi Air List
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:07 pm 
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One of my boyz has got some barracudas on order, so we will try a barracuda thunderbolt mixed list against standard imperial navy.

I would also allow a small marauder contingent, pounding the enemy with vast quantities or ordance is what imperial troops do best (even traitious ones  :;): ).  So the bluies might allow their pet humans the ability to do that, whilst coaxing them towards their own (better) Philosophy.  Just like they do with Kroot.

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Nerroth
 Post subject: Gue'senshi Air List
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:18 pm 
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Marauders don't fit with the doctrine of the Grenadiers - Tiger Sharks (plus loads of Seeker missiles on the Barracudas and Orcas) would be preferred.

My Epic list has no artillery units included (and won't receive it, either), as it relies on Tau heavy support instead.


Gary




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