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[Craftworlds] Yme-Loc Grav-Armour Warhost

 Post subject: [Craftworlds] Yme-Loc Grav-Armour Warhost
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:56 pm 
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Heh.  Hoisted on my own pitard.  Fair enough.

Since that's too fiddly, just 50% titans/air would work as well.

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 Post subject: [Craftworlds] Yme-Loc Grav-Armour Warhost
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:40 am 
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As with seman's original list, I love the idea.  That was also my first thought upon seeing that page of the new Eldar 'dex.

Of some concern is the Autarch - why limit him to Aspect troupes?  Going to the background, we see that the traditional Aspects are merely the most common ones, and that various Craftworlds have different Aspects.  We also know that the relative numbers of Aspects vary across Craftworlds, and that there are Aspects (the Star Eagles, for one) which serve as pilots.  Finally, we know that the differences between Craftworlds are often defined in terms of the differences between their Aspect populations - Biel-tan has lots of everything, Ulthwe and Iyanden don't have enough of anything (though Iyanden has plenty of dead ones), and Saim-hann has lots of Spears.  It's not a huge leap to assume that Yme-loc adopts its distinctive style of war because of a plethora of pilot-type Aspects.  I believe that we're even told that the Eldar superheavies are regularly crewed by Aspects, but that most Craftworlds lack the quantity of pilot Aspects to crew all of their Falcons.

The potential uses for this assumption are many and interesting:

First and foremost, the Autarch could be an 'upgrade' to a Prism/Titan model (perhaps in addition to the option to mount him in an Aspect troupe - similar to the Tau list this way, which can mount a Shas'o in a Scorpionfish or Crisis formation).  This allows an all-tank force to retain a Supreme Commander function.

Second, it allows some implementation of the various vehicle upgrades allowed in the codex.  Upgraded Falcons/Prisms could be available as part of the Titans/Aircraft allotment.  These would be the 'unique units' of the Yme-loc list (in addition to the relatively minor Autarch shift).  Statlines would be identical with the exception of 1+ initiative (Aspect pilots), Holofields (Holofields), and RA (Holofields).  They would essentially offer an alternative to Titans without simply taking swarms and swarms of basic Falcon warhosts.  Obviously, being slightly more than three times as durable, they'd cost quite a bit more.  Alternately, such a Falcon/Prism could be available solely to the Autarch (though I reject this for consistency reasons - Holofields simply aren't that rare).  While it may sound somewhat complex, it's no more so than the Black Guardian rules.

A final option would be to give all vehicles Aspect pilots (but no Holofields).  Offsetting the disadvantages of a severe dearth of formations and infantry, vehicle formations would net 1+ initiative and the ability to ignore blast markers for coming under fire.  One could easily justify a reroll of those dangerous terrain tests that skimmers take when landing in cover, too, though that may be too many special rules.  Of course, I have a feeling that they'd need to cost just a bit more as well.  This would need to be carefully considered if taken together with the option for Holofields on some vehicles - combined with ignoring BMs for coming under fire, that's one hard formation.  This same idea (all vehicles with Aspect pilots) would also allow us to add Exarchs to tank formations.  Presumably, they'd have a slightly different effect (Inspiring and extra attacks don't make a great deal of sense in this situation), but it'd be an interesting addition.

Basically, I think that an important goal of a treadhead Eldar list is to capture the power and variety of Eldar vehicles.  The Biel-tan list restricts Holofields to Titans so as to emphasize the soap-bubbles with sledgehammers theme, but there's no reason that Holofielded tanks couldn't fill in for the Titans in a grav-tank list.  There's no contradiction between piloting a vehicle and being an Aspect Warrior, and Yme-Loc is surely the poster child for the implementation of such a Warrior.

As an aside, perhaps a better way of limiting the use of Aircraft without limiting Titans is through the use of tried and true warhost requirements.  Allow one Titan selection for every warhost (thus you could achieve a list with roughly 66% in Titans if you wanted to go almost entirely without troupes) and one Aircraft selection for every two warhosts.  Pure Aircraft spam would be pretty hard to do, as you'd be buying two ~400 point Warhosts for every (at most) 400 point Aircraft group, and most people don't spam Phoenix Bombers.  The best Vampire spam you're going to be able to pull off is 20% of points, and that's without Aspects in the Vampires.  The most abusive you could get would be to take the cheapest warhosts and your limit of Titans and Aircraft.  For every 800 points of Warhost, you'd have the option for around 1500 points of Titans and 300 of Aircraft (averaging - 200 if Vampires).  That's 31% Core, 58% Titan, and 11% Aircraft.  Is this really so bad?  It's simply an Eldar Titan list, and the main avenue of abuse (Aircraft) is severely limited here.  Of course, you handily solve even this possible problem by limiting Titans to two per Warhost.  Then, the best you could do would be 800 Core, 750 Titan, and 300 Air.  That's 43% Core, 40% Titan, and 16% Air - not much worse than simply saying 50% Air/Titan.






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 Post subject: [Craftworlds] Yme-Loc Grav-Armour Warhost
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:24 am 
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I'll try and post some response tomorrow.  My 'Net was down all afternoon/evening.  I'm currently at my girlfriend's about to watch a movie.

Thanks for the comments so far!

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 Post subject: [Craftworlds] Yme-Loc Grav-Armour Warhost
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:25 pm 
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Well, I got in the first battle using the Yme-Loc list, please take a look over here:

3000 points vs Space Marines!

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 Post subject: [Craftworlds] Yme-Loc Grav-Armour Warhost
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:15 pm 
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For the Titan/Air points, how about up to 50% total, no more than 33% air?  That effectively allows a "free" allotment of 1/6 of points in titans but still limits the overall composition to something pretty close to standard.  The way it's written now you could have 50% titans and 33% air, leaving only 1/6 of points from the "core" list.

neal exactly how is this "close to standard" when the AMTL list exists ???

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 Post subject: [Craftworlds] Yme-Loc Grav-Armour Warhost
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:36 pm 
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(illuvitar @ Dec. 17 2006,18:15)
QUOTE
neal exactly how is this "close to standard" when the AMTL list exists ???

Here's an Yme-Loc list that, basically, maxes out the Aircraft and Titan allotments, what do people think? ?Depending on which air rules are in play, the Vampires won't be doing much and might be better off as other Eldar aircraft.

Yme-Loc Air and Titan List - 3000 points

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Sword of Vaul Warhost
4 Falcons
1 Fire Prism
2 Firestorms
1 Farseer

Guardian Troupe
4 Guardians
3 Heavy Weapon Platforms
1 Farseer

Vampire Raider 1
1 Vampire Raider

Vampire Raider 2
1 Vampire Raider

Vampire Raider 3
1 Vampire Raider

Vampire Raider 4
1 Vampire Raider

Eldar Spacecraft
1 Wraithship

Revenant Titan Group
2 Revenants

Warlock Titan





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 Post subject: [Craftworlds] Yme-Loc Grav-Armour Warhost
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:50 pm 
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i think somebody should really make an eldar list that is more in line with the other titan lists (either this one or moscovians project).  i.e. it should be able to take nothing but titans if thats the players desire, not that that is neccessarily even a good idea tacticaly. maybe it's just that i love the eldar fluff so much and that they are my favorite race in the 40k universe. but my main reason is that im currently building a AMTL army and would like a balanced list to play it against (most of my games are with friends who use my figs, and i just hate orks :) ) if my opinions are out of wack just ignore me, my actual gaming experiance is mostly with older verstions of G.W. games so im mostley working from logic not experiance.

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 Post subject: [Craftworlds] Yme-Loc Grav-Armour Warhost
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:15 pm 
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Iluvitar, come on over to the Lugganath thread and discuss any ideas you have (that way we're not hijacking this one). :cool:

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