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'Best' IG force?

The_Real_Chris

Post subject: 'Best' IG force?

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:32 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

My playing options are limited in BD to once in a blue moon, so I have time to assemble a proxy army for the odd playtest. Back in the uk I hope to play some tournements if I get a chance, so having a force I am familar with would be handy and I want a break from siegemasters until they are depowered.

So bearing that in mind what is an all powerful guard force at 2700 points? And what would change at 3000?

I used to use the following a lot.

650 Leman Russ company
100 Ogryns, Chimera
050 Hydra
500 Commander Supreme (tastes like chicken)
050 Hydra
250 Infantry company
250 Infantry company
250 Manticores
250 Manticores
200 Deathstrikes
150 Thunderbolts

300 Vultures for 3000 points

I know the Thunderbolts are less than optimal but its a style thing.

There is a lot more air around now - would dropping the Ogryn and a Hydra for a Hydra battery be a good move? Should I swap my beloved Thunderbolts for something else?

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Hojyn

Post subject: 'Best' IG force?

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:12 pm

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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:52 am
Posts: 876
Location: Brest - France

Hi,

I'm not a Guard player, but I play against IG all the time, so...

Have you considered Sentinels? They are great for protecting you artillery, blocking assaults or simply annoying your opponent with their extended ZoC.

I'd swap the Ogryns with Sentinels, and perhaps also drop the Thunderbolts for Sentinels + 1 more Hydra.

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: 'Best' IG force?

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:30 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

I used to use sentinels, hydra and support stands at 3000 points. Now I'm more cavalair with the rt, I only really want one round of fire from each battery!

Perhaps I should be thinking more armour? The following won the WPS CC last year.

500pts Supreme Commander
050pts Hydra
650pts Leman Russ Company
200pts Leman Russ Detachment
050pts Hydra
250pts Warhound Titan
250pts Warhound Titan
200pts Shadowsword
200pts Shadowsword
500pts 2 Baneblades, 1 Shadowsword
150pts Rough Riders

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Hojyn

Post subject: 'Best' IG force?

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:51 pm

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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:52 am
Posts: 876
Location: Brest - France

Now THAT is something I would be afraid of!

Titans, Leman Russes, and Shadowswords galore!

Must be a tough nut to crack, with enough long-ranged firepower to blast most enemies.

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Hojyn

Post subject: 'Best' IG force?

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:03 pm

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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:52 am
Posts: 876
Location: Brest - France

Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 19 Mar. 2006 (11:30))

I used to use sentinels, hydra and support stands at 3000 points. Now I'm more cavalair with the rt, I only really want one round of fire from each battery!

You're certainly well aware of it, but the Sentinels' usefulness go way beyond protecting your artillery. They're good at:

- controlling objectives (and with Scout they can easily control/contest 2 objectives);
- protecting your infantry or your precious SHTs, or even your Titans from enemy assaults;
- denying "good" landing zones for SM Landing Craft and Drop Pods;
- preventing the use of Sustained Fire by placing units from an enemy formation in their ZoC... and if said formation misses its activation roll, forcing it to move instead of shooting at you;
- placing the odd BM here and there;
- and I'm sure their are more uses I'm not aware of.

Anyway, my point is that at 100 points, they are a steal. Used well, they can be a nightmare for your opponent (and I'm talking from experience here

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: 'Best' IG force?

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:15 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

Actually Sentinels are my favourite..... Thunderbolt target!

I love shooting them up!
Yes, have used them a lot in the past, I guess I've become used to the slogging battles I seem to get into, where good saves, unit size and firepower counts for the most! I've tended to use them for cross fires a lot in the past.

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Markconz

Post subject: 'Best' IG force?

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:03 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand

Quote (Hojyn @ 19 Mar. 2006 (11:03))

- preventing the use of Sustained Fire by placing units from an enemy formation in their ZoC... and if said formation misses its activation roll, forcing it to move instead of shooting at you;

Does anyone else have trouble with this tactic being legitimate? I've heard a few incredulous remarks on forums, and we have never insisted on movement in games due to this.

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Jackwraith

Post subject: 'Best' IG force?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:06 pm

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Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:57 pm
Posts: 14

I don't understand. Why wouldn't it be legitimate? Here's what the rulebook says:

1.7.3 If a unit finds itself in an enemy zone of control for any
reason, then it must either charge the enemy or leave the
zone of control when it next takes an action (note that
this will require an action that allows it to charge or
move).

I mean, it's tricky, sure, but Scout doesn't have a whole lot of use without doing subversive things with ZoC, so...

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nealhunt

Post subject: 'Best' IG force?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:31 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Quote (Markconz @ 19 Mar. 2006 (20:03))

Quote (Hojyn @ 19 Mar. 2006 (11:03))

- preventing the use of Sustained Fire by placing units from an enemy formation in their ZoC... and if said formation misses its activation roll, forcing it to move instead of shooting at you;

Does anyone else have trouble with this tactic being legitimate? I've heard a few incredulous remarks on forums, and we have never insisted on movement in games due to this.

I have no problem with it. The units are being directly threatened. With the enemy "in their face" they are either going to engage or retreat.

Besides, if you are really interested in preserving that activation most scout formations are small enough that you can blast them off the "pinned" formation. It may delay the formation from firing slightly, but that's the price of the enemy epxending troops on harassing your valuable formation.

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nealhunt

Post subject: 'Best' IG force?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:33 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

TRC: Looks very much like a "come and get me" force. Garrisoned infantry in cover to hold a solid line. Mech inf to react. Russ for wholesale slaughter. Arty to... well... be arty.

I'm just glad to finally see an IG list with Deathstrikes. I can't possibly imagine why so many IG players leave them at home.

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Chroma

Post subject: 'Best' IG force?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:39 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

Quote (nealhunt @ 12 April 2006 (14:33))

I'm just glad to finally see an IG list with Deathstrikes. ?I can't possibly imagine why so many IG players leave them at home.

Cuz you could have *two* formations of Sentinels for the same cost! *laugh*

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Jackwraith

Post subject: 'Best' IG force?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:24 pm

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Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:57 pm
Posts: 14

Quote (nealhunt @ 12 April 2006 (14:33))

I'm just glad to finally see an IG list with Deathstrikes. I can't possibly imagine why so many IG players leave them at home.

Heh. Guess it depends on your opponents. I'd gladly take them... but neither of my opponents regularly employ Titans/Gargants or mass war machines that would make the DS useful.

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nealhunt

Post subject: 'Best' IG force?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:17 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

They're good on any high-value target. A couple of tanks and you've killed ~150 points, likely in 1 activation, then you can drive around, take pot shots, claim/contest objectives, and generally make a nuisance of yourself. I'd say you can easily get 250 points of use out of them against everything but a horde army.

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Markconz

Post subject: 'Best' IG force?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:27 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand

Quote (nealhunt @ 12 April 2006 (13:31))

Quote (Markconz @ 19 Mar. 2006 (20:03))

Quote (Hojyn @ 19 Mar. 2006 (11:03))

- preventing the use of Sustained Fire by placing units from an enemy formation in their ZoC... and if said formation misses its activation roll, forcing it to move instead of shooting at you;

Does anyone else have trouble with this tactic being legitimate? I've heard a few incredulous remarks on forums, and we have never insisted on movement in games due to this.

I have no problem with it. ?The units are being directly threatened. ?With the enemy "in their face" they are either going to engage or retreat.

Besides, if you are really interested in preserving that activation most scout formations are small enough that you can blast them off the "pinned" formation. ?It may delay the formation from firing slightly, but that's the price of the enemy epxending troops on harassing your valuable formation.

Why would troops not just fire on them? Being forced to take either a move or engage action seems a little harsh to me - you can't just blast those sentinels like most other formations?

Sorry but I've got to be devils advocate on this one.

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Markconz

Post subject: 'Best' IG force?

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:31 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand

Quote (Jackwraith @ 12 April 2006 (13:06))

Yes I know its legal, but so were token assaults. I'm just saying I'm not sure whether it is great mechanisms to include in the game.

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