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EA Tau Version 4.3.3
Tactica
 Post subject: EA Tau Version 4.3.3
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:45 pm 
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Nerroth,

For play value, the Hero becomes the logical choice for 200 points. Sure you can tote around more guys with the custodian, but there seems to be something really lost on the Custodian for the points... all that said - you are the spacecraft expert and CS is the champ. Finaly decision lies in your capable hands IMHO. 4 or 6 on the Hero really doesn't matter to me one way or the other - as long as balanced for the 50 points.

CS & Honda,

I'm with Honda on the ML turrets. I think the sentry turrets should be in the main list. There's been enough discussion and enough people that seem to really like them. We went to great lengths to get them worked up into something to test. It would be a shame to see them out of the list at this point.

TRC,

(not to join the mutual admiration society...) I agree with Honda on the Tau formation situation. 'Historically speaking' the Tau have needed to take larger formations in order to have the staying power to make it through turns 3 and 4 with something meaningful on the field. BM management has been a pretty significant source of this mind set to date.

With the advent of things like drone array for HH and initiative bump for crisis - we may start to see more use of crisis in staple roles as they should be and may see more staying power out of the formation. We may also see tank formations fully capable of being a threat in late game vs. hoping to deal one or two hits due to heavy BM on formations.

I think people may get a bit more riskier with these two formations now as well since we have a bit of BM management. That new change in mentality may also encourage more sacrificial formations as well.

Time will have to tell.

Historically speaking, I too ama  6-9 formation guy in with the E:A Tau (again, historically speaking anyway). I'll have to give the new list changes some play to see if I can count on the latest BM managment to afford me significantly more formations.

Bretan,

I'll be looking for the report!

Cheers,

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Tactica
 Post subject: EA Tau Version 4.3.3
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:20 pm 
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Quote (CyberShadow @ 06 Jan. 2006 (14:35))
Skyray "Hunter Missles" are different than the Scorpionfish "Hunter Missles". That's a JJ no-no! Can't have two weapons with the exact same name doing two different things.


D'Oh. You are right. This is a no-no! It meeds fixing. Thanks.

CS,

Any chance you can fix the SkyRay in the download really quick like???

I'd like to print out the list for a 'tentative' game this weekend, but plan to use the list and skyray in its latest form. I'd prefer to say "here it is - review it" ahead of the game rather than making general comments and printing out threads saying - no, no... that's incorrect, see here, CS plans on fixing that..! :)

LMK if you might be able to make that quick change in the downloaded version ASAP!

Cheers,

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: EA Tau Version 4.3.3
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:18 pm 
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Depends.  :D  I was thinking about changing the name and leaving the stats as they are. This is nice and easy to do, but it adds another missile type to the mix. I must admit that I like the stats as they are, and I would like them tested before more changes.

Comment?

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Steele
 Post subject: EA Tau Version 4.3.3
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:05 pm 
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Hi Cs,
wasn?t there a discussion about allowing Tetras and Piranhas 2 for each space in a Manta?
The AA Missiles on the Skyray aren?t Guided anymore? Did I miss the change , as any other AA missiles are still Guided.
You didn?t include the alternate Stats for the Shas?o and Shas?el as Stands ( aka Bonded Leader solution).

Cheers!
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Tactica
 Post subject: EA Tau Version 4.3.3
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:17 pm 
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Quote (CyberShadow @ 10 Jan. 2006 (16:18))
Depends. ?:D ?I was thinking about changing the name and leaving the stats as they are. This is nice and easy to do, but it adds another missile type to the mix. I must admit that I like the stats as they are, and I would like them tested before more changes.

Comment?

CS,

Skyray:

Functionally -

if your intention is to have it only shoot twice at AA targets with GM

AND

only shoot twice at AT targets with GM

then why doesn't it just have "2x Hunter Missles" and no seeker missles on the profile?

1) Is there a reason to create yet another missle type in the list just to have the AA weapon system seperated?

2) Is there a reason to make the skyray NOT have Guided Munitions when that is exactly what its known for with networked marker lights and that's exactly how it does target fliers and vehicular targets?

Note: I originally assumed you just typo'd the skyray weapon systems... however, with your latest response I'm now concerned. ???

Cheers,




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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: EA Tau Version 4.3.3
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:35 pm 
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Picture this:    No ICHHs.  All of 4 Skyrays on the table, with 2x guided Hunter missiles and markerlights each.   As long as your entire army is deployed across less than 45cm, you can engage just about any air threat with all 8 shots.  That's a significant threat to a Thunderhawk or Vampire, never mind something 'light' like a Marauder.  Adding ICHHs to the mix makes it positively fatal to try to attack the Tau with air, one of the few things that can keep up with their mobility.

I'd probably bring 2 Skyrays for every 3 formations that could have them, myself, and essentially have real close to 1 skyray per Shas'whatever.

When I'd been thinking about this, I'd intended 2x75cm AA5+ guided, although I'm pretty sure that I forgot to mention the word guided.

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Honda
 Post subject: EA Tau Version 4.3.3
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:01 pm 
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I'd like to print out the list for a 'tentative' game this weekend, but plan to use the list and skyray in its latest form. I'd prefer to say "here it is - review it" ahead of the game rather than making general comments and printing out threads saying - no, no... that's incorrect, see here, CS plans on fixing that..! :)



Hmm... I never have to do that. I just show up with my list and play.

Have you tried to pull a fast one on them in the past and now they require you to provide your armylists ahead of time?

:p

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Honda
 Post subject: EA Tau Version 4.3.3
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:01 pm 
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I'd like to print out the list for a 'tentative' game this weekend, but plan to use the list and skyray in its latest form. I'd prefer to say "here it is - review it" ahead of the game rather than making general comments and printing out threads saying - no, no... that's incorrect, see here, CS plans on fixing that..! :)



Hmm... I never have to do that. I just show up with my list and play.

Have you tried to pull a fast one on them in the past and now they require you to provide your armylists ahead of time?

:p

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Tactica
 Post subject: EA Tau Version 4.3.3
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:53 pm 
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Quote (Honda @ 11 Jan. 2006 (12:01))

Honda,

LOL - by army list I meant my 'codex' version I'll be using. Not my actual army list I'm fielding.

Sorry. :p

They don't keep up with the forums so the first time they see a new 'codex' in E:A is when I show up with it in hand and fielding units for the first time. They've asked for time to review it in advance of the game in the past and as a courtesy, I like to get my opponent a copy of the current codex version in advance of the game if I can.

Tis all,

Cheers,

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Nerroth
 Post subject: EA Tau Version 4.3.3
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:41 pm 
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I think a question was raised over LV transportation in a Manta, which I had asked about a while back.

I'd like to re-iterate my request to see 3 Tetras or 2 Piranhas per Devilfish slot.

The 3 Tetras part can be seen in the IA3 stats for the Manta.

The Piranha part isn't, but given the size difference between a Piranha and a Devilfish, I believe that 2 per 1 slot would be reasonable.

Plus, it would facilitate the dropping of a 6 Tetra + 4 Piranha formation in one go - useful for representing forward planetary insertions or strategic deployments.


Gary

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: EA Tau Version 4.3.3
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:54 am 
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Quote (Lion in the Stars @ 11 Jan. 2006 (17:35))

Picture this:    No ICHHs.  All of 4 Skyrays on the table, with 2x guided Hunter missiles and markerlights each.   As long as your entire army is deployed across less than 45cm, you can engage just about any air threat with all 8 shots.  That's a significant threat to a Thunderhawk or Vampire, never mind something 'light' like a Marauder.  Adding ICHHs to the mix makes it positively fatal to try to attack the Tau with air, one of the few things that can keep up with their mobility.


Is this - great the Tau should be stacked with flak
or - bad the Tau shouldn't be stuffed tot he gills with powerful flak.

Or just a tactical recomendation? :)

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Tactica
 Post subject: EA Tau Version 4.3.3
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:10 am 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 13 Jan. 2006 (18:54))
[quote="Lion in the Stars,11 Jan. 2006 (17:35)"][/quote]
Picture this: ? ?No ICHHs. ?All of 4 Skyrays on the table, with 2x guided Hunter missiles and markerlights each. ? As long as your entire army is deployed across less than 45cm, you can engage just about any air threat with all 8 shots. ?That's a significant threat to a Thunderhawk or Vampire, never mind something 'light' like a Marauder. ?Adding ICHHs to the mix makes it positively fatal to try to attack the Tau with air, one of the few things that can keep up with their mobility.


Is this - great the Tau should be stacked with flak
or - bad the Tau shouldn't be stuffed tot he gills with powerful flak.

Or just a tactical recomendation? :)

TRC,

No offense to lion, but I would call it wishful thinking, unlikely analysis, and unprobably hypothetical situations.

First, 4 skyrays cost you 300 points. That's the equivilent of 2 hydra batteries or 12 AA 5+ shots at 45cm. They Skyray's AA is 6+ base and requires markers to get to 5+.

The opponent will doubtfully fly into 30cm marked territory just to allow 8 hunters hit him... afterall, in the hypothetical situation, the units are all within 45cm of each other to make use of the AA umbrella. If the enemy is foolish enough, more power too the tau for taking him out!

Chances are, the enemy will soften up at least two of those formations and either supress or break them before attempting his run. If he has any kind of BP potential - the tau will regret their huddled mentality.

When the enemy does approach his aircraft, he'll probably skirt any ML capable units (if their not already broke) on the approach, thus waisting any skyray 60cm AA shots as 6+ instead of 5+ and the 30cm ML won't be of much use on the departure.

4x AA6+ is hardly the worlds end for a Vampire or even a thunderhawk. I'm sure the enemy will be quite pleased the Tau paid 300 points for the opportunity too.

Furthermore, this tau tactic still has to manage to win the objecitve game. Huddled formations to form AA umbrellas are inherently weak against assault armies and barrage heavy armies. The tau tactic will have its challenges.

Cheers,

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Steele
 Post subject: EA Tau Version 4.3.3
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:06 pm 
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Quote (Tactica @ 14 Jan. 2006 (02:10))
Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 13 Jan. 2006 (18:54))
Quote (Lion in the Stars @ 11 Jan. 2006 (17:35))

Picture this: ? ?No ICHHs. ?All of 4 Skyrays on the table, with 2x guided Hunter missiles and markerlights each. ? As long as your entire army is deployed across less than 45cm, you can engage just about any air threat with all 8 shots. ?That's a significant threat to a Thunderhawk or Vampire, never mind something 'light' like a Marauder. ?Adding ICHHs to the mix makes it positively fatal to try to attack the Tau with air, one of the few things that can keep up with their mobility.


Is this - great the Tau should be stacked with flak
or - bad the Tau shouldn't be stuffed tot he gills with powerful flak.

Or just a tactical recomendation? :)

TRC,

No offense to lion, but I would call it wishful thinking, unlikely analysis, and unprobably hypothetical situations.

First, 4 skyrays cost you 300 points. That's the equivilent of 2 hydra batteries or 12 AA 5+ shots at 45cm. They Skyray's AA is 6+ base and requires markers to get to 5+.

The opponent will doubtfully fly into 30cm marked territory just to allow 8 hunters hit him... afterall, in the hypothetical situation, the units are all within 45cm of each other to make use of the AA umbrella. If the enemy is foolish enough, more power too the tau for taking him out!

Chances are, the enemy will soften up at least two of those formations and either supress or break them before attempting his run. If he has any kind of BP potential - the tau will regret their huddled mentality.

When the enemy does approach his aircraft, he'll probably skirt any ML capable units (if their not already broke) on the approach, thus waisting any skyray 60cm AA shots as 6+ instead of 5+ and the 30cm ML won't be of much use on the departure.

4x AA6+ is hardly the worlds end for a Vampire or even a thunderhawk. I'm sure the enemy will be quite pleased the Tau paid 300 points for the opportunity too.

Furthermore, this tau tactic still has to manage to win the objecitve game. Huddled formations to form AA umbrellas are inherently weak against assault armies and barrage heavy armies. The tau tactic will have its challenges.

Cheers,

Hi,
Tactica , did I miss something? In 4.3.3 the Hunter Missiles are at 5+ ( No Guided Missiles ) ,  so no need for Markerlights? Or is it a Typo ? Please enlighten me.

Cheers!
Steele

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HecklerMD
 Post subject: EA Tau Version 4.3.3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:13 am 
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I take it that none of the upgrades to a Crisis Cadre prevent it from activating on a 1+?

IE  Crisis Cadre + Crisis + Stealth + Shas'O activates on a 1+?
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Tactica
 Post subject: EA Tau Version 4.3.3
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:53 am 
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Heckler,

Its the core choice that activates, everything else is the upgrade to it.

Stealth with crisis upgrade activate on 2+.

Crisis with stealth upgrade activate on 1+.

Cheers,

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