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Post subject: Tau News  Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:56 am |
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Tau News Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:37 pm |
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Please stop comparing 40K organization to Epic. If there is any part of 40K that absolutely does not apply when scaled up, that is it.
The 40K org chart is an artificial and extremely unrealistic limit put in place to make sure that their squad-level engagements can be relatively balanced. Every 40K army has the same restrictions, so by that logic every Epic army would have the same freedom of choice in every formation. That's just silly. It destroys army flavor/feel and throws open the gates for min/max balance problems.
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Neal
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Tau News Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:45 pm |
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Well that works for me ... but Fluff is Fluff, and I dont play 40K ... 
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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colonel_sponsz
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Post subject: Tau News Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:40 pm |
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| Quote (nealhunt @ 14 Nov. 2005 (15:37)) | Please stop comparing 40K organization to Epic. If there is any part of 40K that absolutely does not apply when scaled up, that is it.
The 40K org chart is an artificial and extremely unrealistic limit put in place to make sure that their squad-level engagements can be relatively balanced. Every 40K army has the same restrictions, so by that logic every Epic army would have the same freedom of choice in every formation. That's just silly. It destroys army flavor/feel and throws open the gates for min/max balance problems. |
Err... I thought that was the point we were making here. (At least that was what I thought Tac was getting at.) Unfortunately we can't make that point without doing the comparison. Unless we just start making unsupported assertions 
Epic force organisations are also artificial limts put in place to make sure that larger scale engagements can be relatively balanced (which is in itself artificial and unrealistc - historically when have two commanders ever goten together the night before a battle to try and make their forces as even as possible in order to have a balanced fight over artificial objectives the next day?). In Epic the force org charts are used as the main way of adding flavour/feel as there is much less difference at the micro level (there being less dfference between individual units due to a shorter stat line and far fewer unit and weapon specific rules) so it is very important to periodically discuss the force org chart to make sure it is working as we want. Part of this process is to go over what we know from other sources (of which 40k is inevitably the most often cited) and it would be negligent of us to simply dismiss this out of hand as not everyone has been party to these discussions in the past. This discussion was also made more relavent by the realease of IA3 which gives not only an unpresidented ammount of background on the Tau but it is written from a game neutral standpoint (their TO&Es aren't game legal in either Epic or 40k as far as I can see) and I don't remember anyone going over the list with this information so it seemed as good a time as any to check we were all still happy. Which we seem to be.
Don't forget that not all of us play 40k and not all of us play tournament games when we play Epic. I've had some of my most interesting games with armies that aren't tournament legal. Edit: Actually, most of my most interesting games have been with non tournament legal armies and all of my least interesting games were fought using the tournament rules.
Orde_________________ "I'm smelling a whole lot of 'if' coming off this plan." Tau Army List Archive
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Tactica
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Post subject: Tau News Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:40 pm |
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| Quote (nealhunt @ 14 Nov. 2005 (15:37)) | |
Please stop comparing 40K organization to Epic. |
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Ironically, we do possibly somewhat agree here. I don't think the systems port over 40K: Force org to E:A formation - nor should they.
The point of the thread at the time was not whether or not a 40K force org chart scaled up or not. Nobody was even remotely suggesting that we do that in fact.
The point was that Epic was not historical battles and is based upon a franchise that utilises 40K force org charts to constitute a base fighting structure. A Cadre's historical composition structure was in question. A discussion of the established franchise was necessary for all to gain an appreciation for the fact that Cadre is not synonomous with plattoon or battalion. I would also note that we appeared to gain a full appreciation for that fact by all the parties involved in the conversation at that time.
The point was that Epic does not look at real life battalions or plattoons and model its structure off of those modern 21st century fighting structures for every GW race. Epic, like 40K, takes a very abstract approach to fighting structures and implements some 'present day real life structures' in some races while others completely abandon the philosophy in their militaristic creation. None of the races fully adopt any real life military doctrine 100% as they are all fantasy/make-believe races. That was the point. We agree - Epic cannot port over 40K fighting structures (force orgs) for the reasons I and others sited.
I would refer you to the previous posts to gain a complete appreciation for the thread and its context.
The 40K org chart is an artificial and extremely unrealistic limit put in place to make sure that their squad-level engagements can be relatively balanced.
OK - yes, we agree - and I would counter that Epic is the same. "artificial and extremely unrealistic limit in place to maek sure that their *formation-level* engagements can be relatively balanced. I'm not sure on the point, and regardless of your intended meaning, it will not change my mind on what was already said, what I'm saying in this reply, or what the intent and message being discussed in this thread was.
Every 40K army has the same restrictions, so by that logic every Epic army would have the same freedom of choice in every formation. That's just silly. It destroys army flavor/feel and throws open the gates for min/max balance problems.
Hmm... Ironically, we all agree. Unless I missed something, nobody was even suggesting that. So - your statement here is noted.
I would recommend you look back over the thread again. Perhaps you misunderstood the context of the discussion that transpired and has since been resolved satisfactorily by the parties engaged.
It was a good exercise for me to get the Tau TO&Es in my head and how I'll do mine for our system ! Thanks for the stimulating/ intellectual conversation/discussion ! For the Greater Good ! 
