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Tau News
colonel_sponsz	Post subject: Tau News Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:08 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:14 pm Posts: 390	[I don't want to step on anyone's toes here and this is just a suggestion to help us keep track of things in light of the above posts.] I don't know if there are any other techies out there that are familiar with Linux kernel numbering but there is a formal process for differentiating stable and development versions. In our case stable lists would be those where the changes had been agreed and development lists would be the same as the previous stable list but incorporating changes that are currently being playtested with a view to incorporating into the next stable list.  Hopefully this should help everyone know where we are with the list and what we are working on.  Keeping an archive of the list versions would also make it much easier to see what ideas had been tested in the past. Linux uses odd and even numbers for the minor revision number but this seems a bit over the top and obscure for us so we could use a letter to denote dev releases (e.g. 4.2d). Orde _________________ "I'm smelling a whole lot of 'if' coming off this plan." Tau Army List Archive
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CyberShadow	Post subject: Tau News Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:35 pm
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9350 Location: Singapore	L4 - I take your point on the list as it stands. There are still details to be worked out and changes to be made. I would in particular be interested to hear your view on the TO&E of it (Tactical Organisation and Equipment, the structure of the list in general). I have emailed JG about an editable version, but it may be easier just to copy and paste sections into my own DTP program and move on from there. This would leave me flexible for editing and presentation at a later time. Tactica - I understand that the changes are a compilation of the suggestions by the community as a whole (what I refer to right now as the ETDG - Epic Tau Development Group), but having them compiled into a single document is extremely useful, and I thank you for that. When I say that I will check out JGs suggestions and the boards, I realise that many of the points will have been covered in v4.2.4, but it would also be good for me to be remind on the reasoning behind the points. Version 4.2.4 will act as a 'jumping off point' for version 4.2 changes and I view it as an initial list of suggestions for the list. Personally, I dont see the point in examining the Vespids at this stage. While there are only rumours on their inclusion in 40K, and while we have other issues to address I think that they should remain 'in the wings'  ( ) for the time being. That said, I will not ignore them and will try to remember that they are waiting for us, depending on the balance between 40K release and turning the EA list in. I agree that version 4.2 was looking a little dated recently, and I think that we should try to get new versions released fairly rapidly at this stage until things settle down a little more. Steele - I have no intention of dropping the Stealth suits in the list. They are a very 'Tau' unit (characterful) and I really believe that we can get them balanced and working in the way that they should. Thanks for your comments, I will keep them in mind. As for version number, to be honest I dont follow any strict code on these!   I would guess that the next version submitted to SG as a draft would be version 4.3, but as long as it is clear that it follws v4.2, then I am open to suggetsions!   Thanks. _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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Honda

Post subject: Tau News Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:35 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

The one Unit giving me some concerns are the Stealth. The abilities they deserve are just so many that a lot of people would cry out. I think they are an Infiltration Force to Sabotage Key Installations of the Enemy or Recon ( Pre Alpha Strike) - so they would need to have Scout, Infiltration, and a good Cover Save (Camouflage). Regarding the Teleport ability - I only remeber having read a Fan Story about them beeing dropped out of a Starship in Orbit to an Ork Outpost, where they almost couldn?t be seen, ?but their Gunflashes. So IMHO they need some work - or worst case - Drop them. Steele, you are correct that it might take a number of special abilities in order to get them to emulate how they operate in 40K and how they are perceived by the community at large. However, I would ask that you try playing them a little more and keep in mind some of the points that were brought out in the recent Stealth post. I for one am keeping an eye on them as are others to ensure that the Stealth don't become the "franchise" unit in the Tau army. They should be looked upon as a nice bolt-on to enhance certain types of play. My current opinion is that with teleport, they have become more flexible but also more vulnerable. I think time and testing will tell. I think dropping them would be a real shame and a little drastic considering what they are currently capable of. Your thoughts? _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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Steele

Post subject: Tau News Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:53 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:40 am Posts: 423 Location: Duisburg , Germany

Quote (Honda @ 10 Nov. 2005 (14:35)) The one Unit giving me some concerns are the Stealth. The abilities they deserve are just so many that a lot of people would cry out. I think they are an Infiltration Force to Sabotage Key Installations of the Enemy or Recon ( Pre Alpha Strike) - so they would need to have Scout, Infiltration, and a good Cover Save (Camouflage). Regarding the Teleport ability - I only remeber having read a Fan Story about them beeing dropped out of a Starship in Orbit to an Ork Outpost, where they almost couldn?t be seen, ?but their Gunflashes. So IMHO they need some work - or worst case - Drop them. Steele, you are correct that it might take a number of special abilities in order to get them to emulate how they operate in 40K and how they are perceived by the community at large. However, I would ask that you try playing them a little more and keep in mind some of the points that were brought out in the recent Stealth post. I for one am keeping an eye on them as are others to ensure that the Stealth don't become the "franchise" unit in the Tau army. They should be looked upon as a nice bolt-on to enhance certain types of play. My current opinion is that with teleport, they have become more flexible but also more vulnerable. I think time and testing will tell. I think dropping them would be a real shame and a little drastic considering what they are currently capable of. Your thoughts? @CS & Honda, dropping them should not be viable, and I also do not intend doing it.Mentioned it only, as a last ditch event. But the current abilities don?t justifiy them enough. And only using them for Deep Strike Marker Lighting is obviusly not selling the invested Points back, unless your playing table is a smaller one with about 80cm - 100 cm across, and having the target unit also in Range of any GM. Giving them teleport is OK, and I will give it a try, maybe Points need to be adjusted. But better IMHO, would be something like the Shrouding for Grey Knights. Steele _________________ Quid pro Quo

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Legion 4	Post subject: Tau News Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:33 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm Posts: 36989 Location: Ohio - USA	Yes Tactica, I didn't mean anything to be "hurtful".  (based on my previous career, I sometimes tend to be blunt, obtuse, truncated, etc. !)  What I mean by TO&E = Table of Organization & Equipment, (military term) , ie. Army List ...  And this leads to C/S - I do think much of the rules are good.  I see the Tau as a fast mobile armored/mech force strongly supported by CAS.  It's lack of FA does not bother me, the CAS should more than make up for it.  I think the Manta should be Planetfall, and Skimmer, (that's the way we do the T/Hawk !)  Drops in, lands it troops/AFVs and then hides behind cover and pops up to attack ! (like a gunship!)  I think the ORCA should function in a similar manner, too ! I don't like the Support craft rule ... no need to muddy it up any more than we have to - yes !?   I see the Tau being armor heavy(-ish), with troops mounted in IFVs, (ie. Devilfish),[kind of like Hammer's Slammers!] and Dropships/Landers, strongly supported by CAS.  The Kroot remind me of Montangards (or 'Yards) of Vietnam and the rules should reflect that, IMO.  I like the Spec Ops, troops, Stealth & Pathfinders and the rules should reflect their unique abilities.  And I like the Gue's ( Human Allies/traitors(!?), has a "realistic" feel to it     Hope I answered your questions Tac and C/S ... thank you for asking !   _________________ Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Tactica

Post subject: Tau News Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:21 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241

Steele, Thanks for the comps - but it was a community effort and I stand by that. Nothing could've been done without all of the feedback and playtest. We have a great group of ethusiests here. CS, Glad to hear it. I fully appreciate and respect the fact that you want to get a complete understanding of why things are the way they are and why decisions have been made. I applaud that. Informational - the development list in the SG vault is Tau v4.1. We can call the next version whatever we/you like. However, the goal of the WIP effort was to create a Tau v4.2 for the vault. Thus, Tau WIP v4.2.4 was an effort to get that done. Col_Sponz, Regarding versioning, if anyone is interested, I have the following in PDF... Tau WIP v4.2.0 Tau WIP v4.2.1 Tau WIP v4.2.2 Tau WIP v4.2.3 Tau WIP v4.2.4 I also have the latest version in edittable MS Excell 2003 format. Along with a word doc of accompanied questions. Honda, Spot on - cheers. L4, No worries, I didn't take offense. I have the tendancy to be rather blunt in the real world myself and am known for being thick skinned and up front. I often worry that I'm being too abrasive online at times, so I go out of my way to try and correct it when I notice I'm doing it. So no worries there. What I mean by TO&E = Table of Organization & Equipment, (military term) , ie. Army List ... So if you are unhappy with the army list (TO&E), can you be more specific? A) Is this really a summary statement of not being happy with 1) Support Craft rule and 2) kroot units as a whole? If so, I understand. B) Or do have a problem with the actual formations available in the entire Tau army list? If you do have a problem with the formations available - i.e. army list, how would you see it differently from what we've come up with? C) Or do you have a problem with where formations are at in the army list? (Cadre, Contingents, Alien Auxilia and Air Caste) D) Or does not liking the TO&E mean something completely different? I'm thinking you mean A) above, but just trying to be sure. I see the Tau as a fast mobile armored/mech force strongly supported by CAS.

I think I agree.

Historic Tau Army compositions (40K) can be referenced to by almost all long time Tau players as three different styles of play/tactics:

- Mechenized, no suits or ground pounders and everything is in a APC or Heavy Support, main focus is fish of fury with HH support.

- Ifantry, No tanks, lots of suits and infantry support. Main push is via suits evading in and out of cover to negate enemy of any opportunity at them while devistating the enemy with broadside and crisis fire. Stealths teleport in to disorganize and distract.

- Hybrid, All the above, Focus is tanks and suits with limited FW or Kroot infantry support. Again Crisis and Stealths punish with impunity while a few broadsides support a primary mobile HH support

Evasion and Fire Discpline... Fast and accurate attacks supported by devistatingly powerful long range strikes... Overwhelming firepower across the spectrum of units... Fluid and dynamic engagement strategies... Only letting the enemy see you when it benefits you... These are the ways of the tau. These make up the montra found in all three historic styles of play.

Mech and Hybrid are the two most common types of play.

Making the superheavies (Manta and Moray) skimmers and remvoing the support craft rule all together is fine by me personally. Its an unnecessary net weakness (everyone can always see this one formation) built into the craft for a rather minor bonus (this formation can see all of enemy) that I can't stand personally, but have accepted.

As long as the formation was kept viable and offensively sound (i.e. nothing else changed) I'd be happy to see it go to Skimmer and eliminate Support Craft rule all together. That perspective doesn't appear to be the common thread amongst the community though - at least not what I've seen voiced. Most enemys of the tau love that their entire army can see these things from deployment no matter where they are at on the field. Attempts to take that away are going to likely generate a backlash from the non-tau players - be forwarned. However, I got your back on this one L4.