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Dragonfish Command Cadre |
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Tactica
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Post subject: Dragonfish Command Cadre  Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:27 am |
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Dragonfish Command Cadre
In lieu of a desire for a Dragonfish back in the main list, and SC reduction converstations from to 1 not 2, I've kicked around the idea of a Dragonfish Command Cadre (think SHT Co in IG). A single SC version of the Dragonfish though. The formation would also have 1 Scorpionfish.
The army would note that only one SC is allowed in the army.
Points for this cadre are yet to be determined as its conceptual. The basis of points seems to be around the 400 point level.
The easier way to bring the Dragonfish into the main list is of course to just make it an upgrade or replacement to the Scorpionfish contingent, but it seems that a leader vessel like this deserves to be in the cadre roll.
Thoughts?
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Rob
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Dobbsy
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Post subject: Dragonfish Command Cadre Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:16 am |
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Is there a need for this vehicle formation? I'm worried it may start looking like a high tech IG list. Of course this is just a first impression.
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Steele
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Post subject: Dragonfish Command Cadre Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:59 am |
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| Quote (Tactica @ 28 Oct. 2005 (01:27)) | Dragonfish Command Cadre
In lieu of a desire for a Dragonfish back in the main list, and SC reduction converstations from to 1 not 2, I've kicked around the idea of a Dragonfish Command Cadre (think SHT Co in IG). A single SC version of the Dragonfish though. The formation would also have 1 Scorpionfish.
The army would note that only one SC is allowed in the army.
Points for this cadre are yet to be determined as its conceptual. The basis of points seems to be around the 400 point level.
The easier way to bring the Dragonfish into the main list is of course to just make it an upgrade or replacement to the Scorpionfish contingent, but it seems that a leader vessel like this deserves to be in the cadre roll.
Thoughts? |
Well, removing the second Roll would definitively also remove the purpose of the Vehicle: To Coordinate the Battle more effectively. So speaking, you won?t need it anymore. Only benefit would be that it is then a WE.
Cheers!
Steele
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Honda
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Post subject: Dragonfish Command Cadre Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:57 pm |
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I am more in favor of:
1. Move the vehicle off of the Collectors list
2. Limit SC choice to one
3. Allow for the substitute of a Scorpionfish
4. Keep the second command re-roll
Let's keep this really simple as I think there are enough other moving parts that changing everything all at once is going to cause us to lose focus.
KISS
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Honda
"Remember Taros? We do"
- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Tactica
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Post subject: Dragonfish Command Cadre Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:36 pm |
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I think NH and Asura have made good valid points about the concern for the second SC reroll.
I'm all for KISS.
It could remain an upgrade, and believe me - I really like the second reroll - however, the points made are undeniable.
I don't want to make a stylistic faux-pau (sp).
Perhaps we could look at a replacement benefit for the Dragonfish at some point.
I'd suggest we either table this vehicle (again) and leave it in the collectors as is for the next revision *or* we move it to the main list as Honda suggested - an upgrade or replacement in the scorpionfish contingent, but in doing so we lose one of the rerolls.
The net benefit would be the SC is in a WE and not a Battlesuit. Beneficial - perhaps in the eye of the beholder. It does allow one to play the tau mech theme and avoid having to take a crisis suit shas'o for SC. This is a good alternative IMHO.
The base points for the exchange may be in question with the loss of one of the SC rerolls if we choose to go this route.
Another option is to put it (as desired) into the v4.2 list with 2x SC rerolls of course, but my vote is to avoid doing this for sited concerns. Gentlemen, when in question, I'd rather err to the side of caution. If there's an unspoken principle of 1 SC for 1 Army - it would take Jervis' approval to expect a change to that principle. Considering the unprecidented level of tactics for the tau that the battle matrix upgrade would bring to E:A - I fully expect him to shut this down - even if it was in the list. Keep in mind, once in the dev list, all other champions would also critique its inclusion.
thoughts?
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Rob
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Steele
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Post subject: Dragonfish Command Cadre Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:44 pm |
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| Quote (Tactica @ 28 Oct. 2005 (15:36)) | I think NH and Asura have made good valid points about the concern for the second SC reroll.
I'm all for KISS.
It could remain an upgrade, and believe me - I really like the second reroll - however, the points made are undeniable.
I don't want to make a stylistic faux-pau (sp).
Perhaps we could look at a replacement benefit for the Dragonfish at some point.
I'd suggest we either table this vehicle (again) and leave it in the collectors as is for the next revision *or* we move it to the main list as Honda suggested - an upgrade or replacement in the scorpionfish contingent, but in doing so we lose one of the rerolls.
The net benefit would be the SC is in a WE and not a Battlesuit. Beneficial - perhaps in the eye of the beholder. It does allow one to play the tau mech theme and avoid having to take a crisis suit shas'o for SC. This is a good alternative IMHO.
The base points for the exchange may be in question with the loss of one of the SC rerolls if we choose to go this route.
Another option is to put it (as desired) into the v4.2 list with 2x SC rerolls of course, but my vote is to avoid doing this for sited concerns. Gentlemen, when in question, I'd rather err to the side of caution. If there's an unspoken principle of 1 SC for 1 Army - it would take Jervis' approval to expect a change to that principle. Considering the unprecidented level of tactics for the tau that the battle matrix upgrade would bring to E:A - I fully expect him to shut this down - even if it was in the list. Keep in mind, once in the dev list, all other champions would also critique its inclusion.
thoughts? |
I?m for keeping it in the Collectors Section. At least until someone dares to question the second reroll more officially.
Steele
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clausewitz
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Post subject: Dragonfish Command Cadre Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:06 pm |
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Or if a Mech-based Tau list is made then the Dragonfish would be prime candidate for its SC unit.
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Steele
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Post subject: Dragonfish Command Cadre Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:17 pm |
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| Quote (clausewitz @ 28 Oct. 2005 (18:06)) | | Or if a Mech-based Tau list is made then the Dragonfish would be prime candidate for its SC unit. |
Yes, but then with only one Re-roll.
Steele
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clausewitz
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Post subject: Dragonfish Command Cadre Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:43 pm |
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Honda
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Post subject: Dragonfish Command Cadre Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:51 pm |
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Ok,
I won't argue with the second re-roll. If that is an army generic design feature, then from my perspective it is more important to have the vehicle in the main list with one re-roll, then out and debate the 2 rerolls.
So, current proposal would now look like:
1. Move the vehicle off of the Collectors list
2. Limit SC choice to one
3. Allow for the substitute of a Scorpionfish
4. One SC re-roll, other attributes as a Scorpionfish
5. Reduced weaponry as currently fielded in Collectors list
Comments?
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Honda
"Remember Taros? We do"
- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Tactica
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Post subject: Dragonfish Command Cadre Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:04 pm |
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Honda,
I don't see any game breaking event there. Looks fine to playtest with to me.
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Rob
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Clockwerks
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Post subject: Dragonfish Command Cadre Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:14 pm |
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I too like the idea of being able to have the SC out of his battlesuit and in a WE. Tactica raises a good point of bucking the trend of having 1 SC reroll in an army. Jervis, I think, would disapprove of it. Additionally, adding another reroll a turn would essentially inflate the Tau's perceived strategy rating. If one has a strategy rating of 2+ but 2 rerolls a turn the list would start to look and feel more like marines on a bad day (IE: 1+ initiative with a smattering of BMs spread around).
Adam
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Tactica
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Post subject: Dragonfish Command Cadre Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:17 pm |
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Clockwerks,
So unless we have significant disproval that I'm missing, I'm hearing Dragonfish is in with no weapon changes.
Changes:
Note limit of 1 unit with SC ability in Tau army
Move dragonfish out of collectors models into main list
DrF swaps out with one ScorpF in said contingent at no cost
DrF counts as an upgrade
Dragonfish downgraded to 1 SC reroll
Good stuff?
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Rob
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