Tactical Command
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

Minervan Tank Legion
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=34416
Page 1 of 1

Author:  Sable Wyvern [ Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Minervan Tank Legion

First game last weekend was a big success. My opponent and I are both sold on the game. He needs to fill out his Eldar force a little, and is then contemplating some orks. I'm happy with my Salamanders, and already have about 7,000 points of minis. I'm just about ready to start building an armoured traitor legion, using the Minervan list. (It wasn't intended to be a traitor legion, but my test colour scheme, which was initially intended to be some kind of Mars/red-planet camo, ended up being a sick, fleshy red with bronze and red highlights ... and who am I to argue when the Chaos gods show themselves to be my Muse.)

This is my initial 6,000 point target. I want it to be reasonably competitive, but mainly fun to play with (and against). If anyone can see any obvious or potential problems, or has any suggestions, feel free to critique away.

COMPANIES
Artillery Coy [550]
8 x Basilisk
1 x Manticore
1 x Hydra

Tank Coy (General Purpose) [850]
8 x Leman Russ
1 x Vanquisher
1 x Hydra
1 x Supreme Commander
1 x Salamander Command

Tank Coy (Assault) [715]
6 x Exterminator
4 x Demolisher
3 x Hellhound
1 x Hydra
1 x Salamander Command

Tank Coy (Titan Killer) [750]
8 x Leman Russ
1 x Destroyer
1 x Executioner
1 x Hydra
1 x Salamander Command

Super Heavy Tank Coy [550]
3 x Shadowsword
1 x Hydra

SUPPORT FORMATIONS
Artillery Bty [250]
3 x Bombard

Salamander Scout Pl [125]
3 x Salamander Scout
1 x Salamander Command

Salamander Scout Pl [100]
3 x Salamander Scout

Salamander Scout Pl [100]
3 x Salamander Scout

Salamander Scout Pl [100]
3 x Salamander Scout

Salamander Scout Pl [100]
3 x Salamander Scout

ALLIES
Marauder Sqn [250]

Thunderbolt Sqn [175]

Thunderbolt Sqn [175]

Reaver [650]

Warhound [275]

Warhound [275]



I'd be tempted to replace the Warhounds with a Stormsword Coy, but the minis seem to be impossible to source, and it's the one Imperial super-heavy I haven't seen a proxy for anywhere. It also costs me an activation, and I'm already pretty low, especially once those scout formations start dying (although, if the the scouts soaking up fire, it seems likely the game is going well for me).

I originally had a Warlord pencilled in for the Reaver, but I dropped it down to a Reaver and got rid of a few of Salamander commands for the scout platoons in order to add the bombards. I can probably grab the extra command vehicles and play either variant. I'm also tempted to pick up some Vultures so I can give them a spin at some point. No infantry though. I'll save them for if I do an Ad Mech list.

Anyway, if anyone has any feedback before I start throwing bundles of cash at Vanguard, you'll have my gratitude.

Author:  GlynG [ Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervan Tank Legion

It's a bit on the low side in terms of numbers of activations - normally recommended is to aim for 3-4 per 1,000 points for competitive lists. You also have a lot of small fragile support formations that a canny opponent would target as a priority and wipe out or break as early as possible in the game to give them a greater activation advantage. They can then sometimes save their best activations to use them after you have run out of all your activations.

Author:  Sable Wyvern [ Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervan Tank Legion

Looking at what I'm willing to drop from the list, if I'm to take that on board, I think that means the Reaver has to go. Which I would not be happy with, except that just means I definitely have to make an AdMech army next.

Change the Titan Killer Coy to another Super-Heavy Coy, drop the Reaver and two scout platoons. I can then add 2 Leman Russ platoons (135 points available for variant upgrades) and two super-heavy platoons, upping activations to 18, and significantly reducing the "fragile formation" problem. And letting me play with more super heavies, which is fun.

Author:  Sable Wyvern [ Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervan Tank Legion

I think I actually like the updated list more, so I'm happy I was pushed towards tweaking.

COMPANIES
Artillery Coy [600]
8 x Basilisk
1 x Manticore
1 x Hydra

Tank Coy (General Purpose) [850]
8 x Leman Russ
2 x Vanquisher
1 x Hydra
1 x Supreme Commander
1 x Salamander Command

Tank Coy (Assault) [715]
6 x Exterminator
4 x Demolisher
3 x Hellhound
1 x Hydra
1 x Salamander Command

Super Heavy Tank Coy [550]
3 x Shadowsword
1 x Hydra

Super Heavy Tank Coy [550]
3 x Stormsword (going to have to get some minis printed)
1 x Hydra

SUPPORT FORMATIONS
Artillery Bty [250]
3 x Bombard

Salamander Scout Pl [100]
3 x Salamander Scout

Salamander Scout Pl [100]
3 x Salamander Scout

Salamander Scout Pl [100]
3 x Salamander Scout

Super-heavy Platoon [200]
1 x Baneblade

Super-heavy Platoon [200]
1 x Baneblade

Tank Platoon [340]
6 x Conqueror

Tank Platoon [340]
3 x Thunderer
3 x Demolisher

ALLIES
Marauder Sqn [250]

Thunderbolt Sqn [150]

Thunderbolt Sqn [150]

Warhound [275]

Warhound [275]

One scout formation will have to go without a commissar.

Author:  lord-bruno [ Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervan Tank Legion

I haven't fielded Minerva in a long time. But I remember that LR Vanquishers and LR Destroyers were extremely overcosted for what they did AT wise. Removing those can almost buy you another single SHT.

But I see you have removed the AT Co for the ShadowSword Co so no problem.

And how can you get an Artillery Company for just 550 points??

Author:  Sable Wyvern [ Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervan Tank Legion

lord-bruno wrote:
And how can you get an Artillery Company for just 550 points??


Tournament Pack has them at 550. Although, now that you mention it, I failed to add the cost of the hydra in my post (checking my spreadsheet, it was costed correctly there, so with the adjustment, the list still comes out to 5,995.

Author:  kingzog [ Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervan Tank Legion

lord-bruno wrote:

And how can you get an Artillery Company for just 550 points??


yeah the points for it got dropped down as of the most recent update, I think it got pushed through with the new baneblade stats.

Author:  GlynG [ Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervan Tank Legion

550 is now the standard cost for an artillery company. They'll still be rarely taken for that cost but maybe slightly less rarely.

Author:  RugII [ Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervan Tank Legion

I would like to recommend some formations of Conquerers with Salamander Command vehicles thrown in. Being engaged by 30 RA tanks with triple Inspiring is not something people facing off against a tank army tend to expect!

In terms of artillery company composition 8 Basalisks and 1 Manticore work well due to how the firepower table works (9BP is dead ground and offers nothing over 8BP), you do not get the benefit of Disrupt though! I can’t remember if you can tailor Artillery Companies like this in the Minervan list though.

Author:  Sable Wyvern [ Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervan Tank Legion

RugII wrote:
I would like to recommend some formations of Conquerers with Salamander Command vehicles thrown in. Being engaged by 30 RA tanks with triple Inspiring is not something people facing off against a tank army tend to expect!


Three full companies? That's a lot of Conquerors. I was thinking about making use of some more Conqueror platoons. At only 550 points each, I could see a few companies being effective, but it seems a little cheesy, too.

Quote:
In terms of artillery company composition 8 Basalisks and 1 Manticore work well due to how the firepower table works (9BP is dead ground and offers nothing over 8BP), you do not get the benefit of Disrupt though! I can’t remember if you can tailor Artillery Companies like this in the Minervan list though.


Seems pretty clear that you can mix and match. I was reading the old Minervan thread, and it appears the wording was changed to make that unambiguously legal.

A full Manticore Coy is actually pretty scary, dropping 5 blast markers before a hit is even scored, plus disrupt on top of that. But 10BP still gets you three blast markers, which is enough to break small formations or start a turn by suppressing a super heavy. It's frightening stuff. Based on comments upthread, Arty Coys aren't usually taken but, at 6,000pts, it seems to me you'd be crazy not to grab one. Although it will require me to tie up two Salamander platoons screening (it's certainly not going to take long for my opponent to realise the arty must die). Of course, throw in the Stormswords, Bombards and Marauders, and that's a lot of barrages dropping everywhere.

Author:  RugII [ Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minervan Tank Legion

You consider 3 companies of the same variant of Russ at 6K cheesy? I’m wounded!

Seriously though, you’ll get away with a really mixed list tank list against Eldar at 6k (Eldar’s effectiveness drops of a cliff above 4K) but against other armies you may well need some planned combos which will allow you to hit really hard if called for and some redundancy to achieve it too. Bringing four tank companies of any configuration in to a: prep followed by combined supported engagement, is probably the biggest strike option you’ve got but is tricky to achieve without the mobility of Conquerers.

I think you’d find a whole Company of Manticores disappointing due to Int2+ being not all that reliable, mixed with slow fire, and their poor flexibility when initiative rolls are failed (not to mention only firing once in three turns!). A lone Manticore with Basalisks allows the Company to maintain at least an 8BP barrage even with a couple of BMs so drop off in efficacy isn’t too bad, also the ability to focus fire with AT/AP4+ is a good option once a few units are suppressed.

Once in range a Bombard Company will kill more (and place more BMs in doing so) than a Manticore Company.

Artillery Companies will likely receive a lot of attention so make great bait, I wouldn’t consider anything left to protect them as wasted, they’ll probably be the formations that see the most action!

At 6K, the board might be busy enough for a Lunar class cruiser to be very effective, Eldar also have lots of unshielded super heavy tanks for the pin-point attack!

Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/