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A new guy's Death Guard list. Critique welcome.

 Post subject: A new guy's Death Guard list. Critique welcome.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:30 pm 
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So in 2015 I am going to be working on my Epic Death Guard. I have an old collection of models that I'm in the process of refreshing, and would like to have a tournament ready force done up, and perhaps actually attend a tournament.

Overall I tend to be more of a narrative list writer, and the inclusion of some of the detachments below is more from the point of view of trying to achieve a "Death Guardy" relentless advance feel rather than overall performance.

But at the same time I don't want an army of easybeats, and would appreciate some feedback to help me refine the list and give me some modelling direction.

So if you are a death guard player, or have played against them, or an experienced player(and I use the term loosely!) and see some glaring errors/room for improvement, then please speak up.

Incompertus, 2995 POINTS
Death Guard (Epic UK v070414)
==================================================

DEATH GUARD RETINUE [660]
7 Plague Marines, Plague Tower, Chaos Vindicator, Chaos Lord
The vindicator here is just to make up points and add a little more resilience to the BTS.

DEATH GUARD RETINUE [560]
Sorcerer Lord, 4 Plague Marines, 3 Havocs, 3 Chaos Land Raiders, Death Guard Rhino
Havocs and land raiders seem like a pretty good combination to me. I made The Lord a sorcerer lord as I imagine that I will be trying to firefight with this retinue.

DEATH GUARD TERMINATORS [450]
4 Terminators, Chaos Warlord (Supreme Commander)
Is this the best place for my supreme commander? I plan to use these guys aggressively so putting the upgrade here does have risk associated with it. The other option was in the plague tower retinue, but as that is the BTS putting him here seemed like the lesser of two evils. Does he need to be on the board for me to use his re-roll ability?

DEATH GUARD DEFILER PACK [275]
4 Defilers
I believe that this unit can garrison. They are my best anti-air unit so may be exposed if placed too far forward from the slow moving line. Can terminators teleport on turn 1? That might help reduce the risk.

PLAGUE ZOMBIE INFESTATION [175]
3+2D6 Plague Zombies
A cheap late game teleporter to help offset the lack of mobility the rest of the army has.

PLAGUE REAPERS [200]
Plaguereaper
I thought that these would roll forward with the rest of the line, adding resilience and giving me some extra disrupt shots. The short range seems like a bit of an issue. Perhaps replace one with another plague hound, at the cost of the vindicator and a land raider from the havoc retinue.

PLAGUE REAPERS [200]
Plaguereaper

HELLBLADE FLIGHT [200]
3 Fighters
Seem like a valuable addition with the ability to hit anywhere on the table and provide some good quality air cover. Do I need two flights in this slow army?

PLAGUEHOUND TITAN [275]
Another disrupt weapon on a faster moving platform than the plague reaper. Seems like a good option to me.

So that's it, close to 3000 points. Possibly a little light on activations but I couldn't really come up with many more.

Critique welcome, and thanks for reading.

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 Post subject: Re: A new guy's Death Guard list. Critique welcome.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:25 pm 
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I'm not the most experienced player overall, but Death Guard are my main force these days... :)

Plague Towers are a pain. While I love the idea of them, using them as a transport can be risky due to the crit effect destroying d3 transported units, instantly bypassing the 3+ save of the Death Guard which is their biggest strength.

For the Terminators, I agree, that's probably putting your Supreme Commander in too much danger. He might be better off in the Retinue with Land Raiders.

Plague Zombie Infestation - while they can be useful as a late-game arrival, they're also exceptionally useful as a tarpit arriving in the first turn and spreading out across a quarter or more of your opponent's lie, stopping their advance - just try to make sure they're far enough back that multiple units aren't giving supporting fire once someone Engages. Being Fearless means that even when (not if but when) they break, they can simply reposition to block a different area!

Plague Reapers - once they get within 30cm, enemy formations will (literally) melt away because they've got so many bleeping guns. The problem is getting them there with a 15cm move and no Marches allowed. :( They can also be a bit fragile in assaults, so make sure they're supported by other troops. I've found that adding a Defiler adds some decent assault capability, effectively doubles the formation's firepower from 30-45cm and also helps cover the Death Guard's big weakness...

Defilers/anti-aircraft. Outside of Hellblades (which I've not used), Defilers are your sole source of anti-aircraft, and with AA5+ 2 x 45cm they're pretty good at it. While the Defiler formation makes a nasty little AA bubble, the ability to randomly add 1-3 Defilers to almost any formation in the list can be more useful as you can end up covering most of the table. Note that due to their 20cm move, Defilers themselves cannot garrison, but if a single one is added to a slower formation then that formation can still garrison. Note that Infiltrator gives the Defilers a double move in an Engage order.

Plaguehounds - similar to the Plaguereapers in that they can make entire formations melt away once they get close enough, they also have the speed to get there. Just watch out for armoured or transported formations as it will only be the barrage that can harm non-infantry targets. I tend to use 2-3 as mobile supporting units, doubling to take out badly-positioned enemy infantry formations or to soften up a stronger formation before retaining with a Retinue to Engage.

Contagion Engines - they're not in your list but are definitely worth a look both from in-game effectiveness and as a conversion opportunity. With four units in the formation they're nastier than the Eldar equivalent as they're getting two templates of Disrupt nastiness and if you really like barrages you can add a further three to get seven barrage points or even a Plague Tower and potentially hit thirteen freaking barrage points! However as with the Defilers they can be added to other formations such as Retinues, where their 30cm AP4/AT6 secondary weapons can add a surprising amount of punch to what can be a fairly under-gunned formation when it comes to ranged firepower.

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 Post subject: Re: A new guy's Death Guard list. Critique welcome.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:23 am 
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Thanks very much for the well thought out and considered response. I appreciate the comments, and the reasons for your suggestions IJW.

Some real food for thought there. I think the list may need some work, but from a modelling perspective I'm in the right ballpark.

I will meditate on this for a while, but for now I'm off to see if I can cram a 13BP disrupt formation into 3000 points. ;D

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 Post subject: Re: A new guy's Death Guard list. Critique welcome.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:16 pm 
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I would field somewhat smaller formation to up the activation count too.

Deathguard+Warlord+rhinos+havocs+DP 465
Deathguards+havocs+rhinos+DP 415
Blight Drones 250
Terminators+DP 450
Defilers 275
Plague Tower 300
Plague zombies 175
Hellblades 200
Hellblades 200
Plague Ship 175
Demon pool: 6 plague bearers.

Something like that maybee.

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 Post subject: Re: A new guy's Death Guard list. Critique welcome.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:28 pm 
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There are no Blight Drones or independent Plague Towers in the Epic UK list.

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 Post subject: Re: A new guy's Death Guard list. Critique welcome.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:40 pm 
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Oh, sorry! Was refering to the new NetEA deathguard list. My mistake!

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 Post subject: Re: A new guy's Death Guard list. Critique welcome.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:47 am 
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No worries. To be honest I will probably use both from time to time. I'm just getting my head around what my modelling priority is going to be.
So far I have 7 rhinos, 4 land raiders, 2 predators, 14 death guard, 6 havocs, 2 warhounds, a warlord and three hellblades. If I supplement this with a few choice models I should be able to make something playable using both lists.
Thanks for the feedback chaps. It's food for thought.

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 Post subject: Re: A new guy's Death Guard list. Critique welcome.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:22 pm 
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Sounds like a good idea, just be aware that getting the infantry WYSIWYG between both lists can be a bit odd due to heavy weapon mismatches. :(

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 Post subject: Re: A new guy's Death Guard list. Critique welcome.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:16 pm 
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Thanks for the heads-up. I have some havoc bases that I can use to swap out with my regular plague marines. I think I should be right in that regard.

While on the subject of wysiwyg, I am planning to use contemptor dreadnoughts as defilers (as these models will be used in 30k games as well). I don't plan to have any dreadnoughts in the list, so it shouldn't be confusing, but what are people's thoughts on this? I suspect the smaller size might bother some people, but isn't really something that would bother me.

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 Post subject: Re: A new guy's Death Guard list. Critique welcome.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:12 pm 
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In a friendly game, 100% fine, but at a tournament I'd have a problem with it, as it's easy to confuse the two

I will say however that if you have a surfeit of plastic contemptor dread models, our very own warmaster nice used some to scratchbuild some nice little defilers.... I'm sure someone can point you at his instructions....

Additionally, Selim Wormrider made some *awesome* defilers here

If you have a substantial bits box, it may be worth a rummage :)

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 Post subject: Re: A new guy's Death Guard list. Critique welcome.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:57 pm 
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Nice one. Thanks Kyus. I'll have to rummage through the bits box and see what I can find.

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