Tactical Command
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Dreadnought Captains
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=28323		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Redgeran [ Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Dreadnought Captains
So I was trying to make a drop pod assault list for Codex SM list and was doing a little experimenting on what I could actually drop. At first I wanted to do assault marines but realized that they can't get rhinos aka could not use drop pods. The next idea was to use devastators.

The question then became, can I add the Captain rule to a dreadnought in a devastator rule to both 1.) Immediately assault with both the 2 devastator formations I was wanting to drop pod in together, and 2.) to actually utilize the extra MW CC attack on a 4+ instead of a 5+ (if at all)?

The rules specifically say "Add any one of the following characters to ANY unit in the formation." I've always seen folks add commanders to infantry, but then again they were always apart of the original formation. However, technically the dreadnought becomes a unit of the formation. The question then becomes, can an upgrade (unit) get an upgrade?

Let me know what you guys think. Thanks.
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dreadnought Captains
Yes Captain can be added to the dreadnought. For instance in the Iron Hands chapter that would not even be rare.
Author:  Ulrik [ Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dreadnought Captains
It's easier to snipe the character if he's in one of two AV units (instead of in one of four infantry units). Also, in assaults you generally want to take the first hits on the dreads (3+ save).

But other than that, yes, like Jimmy says, characters can go into any unit in the formation unless specifically prohibited (chaos marines I think). I also happen to think that Dreadnough Captains/Chaplains are awesome and way underused.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dreadnought Captains
If you use the Space Wolves list the Supreme Commander can be a Venerable Dreadnought ;)
Author:  Ulrik [ Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dreadnought Captains
Dobbsy wrote:
If you use the Space Wolves list the Supreme Commander can be a Venerable Dreadnought ;)


Bjorn!
Author:  Redgeran [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dreadnought Captains
I'll definitely have to factor in the sniping issue. Fortunately after they planetfall in they at least get to immediately assault. So hopefully I can put the maximum amount of hurt on them and leave them reeling. Will have to give it more thought.

Points wise it's either a dread captain or a devastator captain in one unit and a librarian in the other. If the drop doesn't go well I won't even be able to use the extra MW CC attack anyways whereas the librarian still gets an extra 15cm in an assault to use his MW attack, although the dread is an extra body and normal attack at 15cm... decisions decisions.

And please do not tempt me into starting any more armies! The wife lets me get away with only so much... ;D
Author:  Apocolocyntosis [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dreadnought Captains
When i've asked a similar question about chaos i seem to remember it was decided that the character has to be on a stand that was part of the original formation. So you can't add it to an obliterator. Or is that only when the character comes as part of the initial formation cost (for marines you pay to add the char, for chaos you get one in with the formation)?
Author:  Parintachin [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dreadnought Captains
That opens an interresting question.

As I read it, the Red Corsairs Renegade formation allows the player to replace four of the eight Chaos Space Marine units with Cult marines, and the other four with Havocs.

Now, which unit is the Chaos Lord in? Is he a Havoc or a Cult marine? Or is my interpretation wrong?
Author:  Apocolocyntosis [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dreadnought Captains
Parintachin wrote:
That opens an interresting question.

As I read it, the Red Corsairs Renegade formation allows the player to replace four of the eight Chaos Space Marine units with Cult marines, and the other four with Havocs.

Now, which unit is the Chaos Lord in? Is he a Havoc or a Cult marine? Or is my interpretation wrong?


That is exactly the scenario i raised the question in! (back when same was true of black legion)
Again, it maybe a different situation to marine list though, as the character is bought afterwards and not a part of formation at start.

*edit: been told i'm wrong and that it's FAQ'd, so ignore my above posts. But 'm too lazy to find the FAQ.
Author:  Ulrik [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dreadnought Captains
AFAIK Black Legion is an exception due to the wording.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dreadnought Captains
Yes Black Legion (at least it used to be) is the exception, everyone else adds characters as part of the upgrade process. So for example commissar Ogryns.

Still though, I find it hard to think of a majority of situation where I would want a captain instead of a chaplain. I can shoot and move to support with the first formation then engage with the chaplain with a +1 on resolution.

Off topic but I have oft wondered how to change the attractiveness of the other leaders compared to chaplains.
What would giving captains a +1MWCC, +1MWFF, commander, leader
and Librarians +1MWCC, +1TKFF, leader
do? Still no one takes captains and an upkick in Librarians?

Odd that such an iconic marine figure is pretty useless in Epic (well him and dreadnaughts).
Author:  kyussinchains [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dreadnought Captains
The_Real_Chris wrote:
Yes Black Legion (at least it used to be) is the exception, everyone else adds characters as part of the upgrade process. So for example commissar Ogryns.

Still though, I find it hard to think of a majority of situation where I would want a captain instead of a chaplain. I can shoot and move to support with the first formation then engage with the chaplain with a +1 on resolution.

Off topic but I have oft wondered how to change the attractiveness of the other leaders compared to chaplains.
What would giving captains a +1MWCC, +1MWFF, commander, leader
and Librarians +1MWCC, +1TKFF, leader
do? Still no one takes captains and an upkick in Librarians?

Odd that such an iconic marine figure is pretty useless in Epic (well him and dreadnaughts).


Because the combined assault only uses up a single activation so you can hit with the spaceship + deathwind then retain and use both formations to give something a spannering.... otherwise you run the risk of the enemy attacking and breaking the second podding formation before it gets to activate....
Author:  Ulrik [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dreadnought Captains
Eldar's triple retain is used to win plenty of games. Commander is a lesser version of this (limit of targets, limited prep), but it could give some of the effects.

I suspect the fact that you can't destroy three formations (unless the enemy intermingles) is what breaks it.
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