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How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=20953		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:34 am ]
Post subject:  How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
At Kyrt's request, here's a thread for discussing how to deal with Massed Skorchaz.

Skorchaz are a steal, with one of the fastest speeds in the game (35cm movement) matched with excellent firefight (4+) for a 50cm assault range that makes them superb at clipping. They ignore cover, have 5+ armour, are cheap and come in vast formations.
Crucially they are a core formation for the Speed Freekz, meaning they can be absolutely spammed right to the point limit.

What does a Skorcha list look like? Well here's a version of the one currently playing in the War Without End campaign, which I think is pretty awesome. It puts Bikes out front of its skorchaz to take CC opponents, provides aircover, softens up the opponents for assaults using around 16 Fighta Bombas and still manages to field around 84 flame throwing skorcha death machines.
He's done a great job of making a simple army really formidable.

KULT OF SPEED ('UGE) [550]
18 Skorcha, 6 Warbike, Mekboy Speedsta

KULT OF SPEED ('UGE) [550]
18 Skorcha, 6 Warbike, Mekboy Speedsta

KULT OF SPEED (BIG) [350]
16 Skorcha

KULT OF SPEED (BIG) [350]
16 Skorcha

KULT OF SPEED [200]
8 Skorcha

KULT OF SPEED [200]
8 Skorcha

FIGHTA SQUADRON [300]
6 Fighta Bomba

FIGHTA SQUADRON [200]
4 Fighta Bomba

FIGHTA SQUADRON [150]
3 Fighta Bomba

FIGHTA SQUADRON [150]
3 Fighta Bomba

What's that? You won't be scared unless you can see pictures? Ok then.

Image


Image
Author:  adam77 [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
:o :o :o Holy bejeesus!
Author:  Onyx [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
It's a beautiful and daunting army which is owned by a great player!
I'm really glad I've been able to see someone actually do this (I've always wanted to but only have about 24 Skorchas so far).

I nearly managed to beat this army but during the 3rd turn, I inadvertently left a 2cm gap between formations which meant that one of the Kults of Speed (which had blast markers on it) needed to take a March action and would contest objectives. The game was decided on a 4+ activation roll and The Orks won.

Great game in which my 3 Necron Pylons shot down 7 Fighta Bommerz!

Helpful tactics would be greatly appreciated!
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
I'd also note that apart from the Speedstas this army can be done with a standard ork list.

How to beat them, well there are two main ways. Firstly CC them, yes I know that there are some bikes to also deal with, but you have to hit them from the right angle. Secondly use massed fire. They are light vehicles and can be hit by anything so shoot, shoot and shoot some more.

I also find it interesting that there are two BTS formations I would normally fiddle with the list a bit to make sure that there was only one.

Finally remember that you don't have to kill all the formations, but if you break one continue to hammer it, BM on broken formations are devastating.
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
Quote:
I also find it interesting that there are two BTS formations I would normally fiddle with the list a bit to make sure that there was only one.


There would be, but I just made the list up from memory of what is roughly in it; ie a gazzillion skorchaz and fighta bombas. He's a good player so will just have 1 BTS.

Quote:
Firstly CC them, yes I know that there are some bikes to also deal with, but you have to hit them from the right angle.


Tricky.... remember the SPEED of these formations is such that they are going to assault from 50cm away, which is outside the range of most of the weapons in the game as well as far outside the range of most CC units. Necrons could probably CC them using a 40cm monolith move and a 5+15 charge, but few races have that sort of option.

As for shooting them, well you're right and you are going to have to in order to add some Blast Markers at least. However it's going to take a lot more shots than most armies can manage to put a dent into a group of 24 skorchaz before they get into 50cm charge range.
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
The alternative to placing BM on a broken formation is to engage it again, probably a clipping engagement this time, as a broken formation that loses is automatically destroyed. I know that I've cursed this rule in the past when I've had to shovel a lot of my orks off the table because of it.
Author:  Kyrt [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
Depending on what is in range turn 1, i.e. what the Ork player moves first (probably the aircraft...), it should be possible to pick off the small formations.

Those big ones, I honestly don't know. Most CC formations are specialists and quite small formations, especially in tournament armies. Even assuming you can attack from where there is no bike cover, you can probably only get about 5 skorchaz in CC, leaving the rest to counter-charge (10cm) and burn you up with FF.

It'd also take a lot of firepower (several formations' worth) to be able to stop them before they engage. Barrages are going to be the most effective weapons as they will have to bunch up a bit and will fall under AP.

I'd be half tempted to camp everything together on overwatch, just to see what happens :) Theoretically you might be able to break a big formation before it arrives, and everything would be under flak cover too. You'd have to go on the offensive in turn 3 but defensive actions are tough with Orks' 3+ initiative.
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
What you also have to remember with the army above is that it only has 6 formations which can claim objectives. I would concentrate on the smaller ones first, and force your opponent to spread out his remaining forces to claim objectives and allowing you hit him with clipping assaults.
Author:  mattthemuppet [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
there might be alot of them, but none of them can hide in cover and as Tiny-Tim pointed out, there are only 6 on-board fms.

My approach would be to take out the FBs on intercepts within my own ground flak bubbles, that will start reducing his activation count quickly and deny the essential "place BM before assault" role of the FBs in this list. Then make sure every fm has 1BM on it, if possible, focusing on the highest threat fms first, i.e. those within assault range. Finally, focus the rest of your fire power on a smaller fm, break it and then wipe it out with BMs. For the rest, use scout fms on overwatch to limit movement and slow the advance.

Once a couple of those ground fms are broken/ destroyed your opponent will really struggle to control the game.
Author:  Jstr19 [ Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
I thought standard construction of this type of list was to include a buggy in each formation to increase the shooting range of the scorcha's?

With the list you posted I'd do what other have said ignore the fightas and try and remove his smaller formations.
Author:  lord-bruno [ Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
They are vulnerable to AP fire, and cannot benefit much from cover, so template weapons and artillery can hurt them quite badly (at least before the fighta-bombas do their job), and some overwatch to counter their great speed.
Author:  caregadras [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
This tactics is particular, about the fly supremacy it's all ok.
Probably, the most expensive units (2 of the huge Kult of speed) is not good,
usually I prefer to create the most expensive unit as unique, and hard to destroy,
usually infantry if is possible. For example, if I create an infrantry company of 675 pt I can
take one gargant and use it as sacrificable, causing the maximum damage to the enemy as battering ram.
An army sensible at ap fire, completely, is dangerous. All depend about the enemy that approach.
A warlord titan probably is hard to destroy with this kind of weapon, is immune at the flamers of the scorcha,
and with his fire or engage every turn should do a massacre. I prefer, according to the enemy that I approach,
to use a versatile army list, holding the most expensive unit and using a battering ram unit as a gargant, titan, or
similar to break the front enemy line when I've designed to do it. I'm talking about an army of 3.000 - 4.000pts.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
Datz a lota Orkese !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o
Author:  caregadras [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
and a landa formation full of boyz, iz a detterrent and a problem of fast strike attack that my enemy must have in consideration for all the battle, and constrict it to defend his objective, and not run totally in advance against the classic double move ork assault strategy.

1 ork landa: 200pt

1 warhorde: 200pt +25pt +35pt (260pt)
2 nobz
6 boyz
2 gretichin
1 killa kans 25pt
1 nobz 35pt
Author:  asdepicas [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to deal with Massed Skorchaz
what about using thunderhawks?
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