Tactical Command :: View topic - Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list

No war machines....

Avatar- 1 Avatar (free)

(please keep in mind my set limitations)

As for mixing Vypers and Jetbikes, I can see some bonus in the versatility of the formation, but doesn't this also cause some conflict in the best orders to give them? Jetbikes probably want to 'engage', whereas Vypers would want to 'Advance' or 'Double'.

Why do most people not mix aspects in a squad? It seems like a good idea as it allows versatility, but Eldar units tend to be skilled enough to not suffer much drawback (and 'engage' is usually the best action for all aspect units).

Thanks for the list- is there any reason why not to take Support or Heavy Weapons with the guardians? I like the idea of Wraithguard to absorb hits, but actually getting the models seems to be a problem (2 stands per 2 guardian formations, when the required size is 3?).

I know EA is usually played at around 3000pts, but I decided that it would be easiest to make starter armies based on half that points amount. Most of that decision comes from the fact that the other starter army I'm working on is Tyranids, where their entire list composition is based on 3rds of points (having a limit of 500pts of synaptic creatures is easier to work with than 333 or 667 points from 1000pt or 2000pt lists respectively).

I forgot you were using the "Official list" in the NetEA updated one you can have 1-3 WG per formation at 50 each.

Weapons platforms for the guardians are better if you are sitting back field, blitz watching

It's also worth noting that the general feeling on Tyranids is that they are not a suitable starter army

You can run them with webway assaults, but I think Guardians or Spiders work a bit better for that.

KriegXXIX wrote:

You can run them with webway assaults, but I think Guardians or Spiders work a bit better for that.

Just be careful with use of webway assaults. Storm Serpents can be destroyed, and if something's coming out of the webway objective, I believe it can't even assault out if an enemy model is covering it with a zone of control. So putting a lot of formations in the webway may be a dangerous move.

It has been my impression that Spears, Hawks and Spiders work best as pure formations.

Author:	Geep [ Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:41 am ]
Post subject:	Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list
I've got no experience with Epic, but am looking at starting an Eldar army. Currently I'm trying to work out a 1500pt starter list, with the limitations of no war machines and no flyers (which also means I am not too concerned about AA). I've already read a lot of the advice and battle reports on these forums, and have come up with this (using the Biel Tann list): Avatar- 1 Avatar (free) Eldar Guardian Warhost- 1 Farseer stand, 4 Guardian stands, 3 Heavy Weapon platforms, 3 Support Weapon platforms (200 pt total) Aspect Warrior Warhost- 2 Dire Avenger stands, 2 Fire Dragon stands, 2 Striking Scorpion stands, 2 Dark Reaper stands (with 2 Exarchs), 4 Waveserpents (550 pt total) Wind Rider Troupe- 6 Jetbike stands (200 pts) Wind Rider Troupe- 6 Vypers (200 pts) Ranger Troupe- 4 Ranger stands (100 pts) Falcon Troupe- 5 Falcons (250 pts) The list has 6 activations (not including the Avatar), which I think is a good amount. A lot of points are tied up in the Aspect Warrior Warhost, but that seems unavoidable (and it should be nasty in a fire fight). I haven't bothered with a Webway or Autarch at this points level. I have considered swapping the Vypers for War Walkers or 3 Night Spinners (and boosting the Rangers to 5 stands). Are any more experienced players able to critique this list? (please keep in mind my set limitations) I'd like to include a fair few Banshees in my list (as my 40k Eldar army is Iybraesil themed), but have heard most people dismissing them as no good (so haven't included any so far). Is there a way Banshees can be used well? Thanks for the help

Author:	Angel_of_Caliban [ Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list
Geep wrote: No war machines.... Avatar- 1 Avatar (free) (please keep in mind my set limitations) Its hard to follow limitations when the author brakes them. So I would drop the Avatar in till your ready to add WE. Also your army is kinda small point wise. E:A was design to work at the 3k level or better. 2k works well for small starter games and leave a full 1k for adding WE and Flyers when your ready. So I would think about doing 2k. I personally don't like running full mixed Aspects. I run either all of a kind or 33%-50% split between 2 types. Windriders Host: Many people (me included) run them mixed to help their usefulness. I run 2 Vypers, 4 Bikes and some folks 1/5 ratio or 3/3. It all about what role you want them to play. There not the greatest shooting formation so assaults are better. But its good to have a Vyper or 2 for BM prepping if the opportunity present itself. Rangers: I like em! They work well...and their the only Infantry that can Garrison in an Eldar force. Falcons: You'll almost always see them with 1 or 2 Firestorms. Granted you don't need them yet but its good to remember. Guardian: Since your Infantry have no transports and since you opted against the Gate, that leaves the Guardians to protect your Blitz since trying to move them around the board would be hard and deadly. Here's my recommend 2k list Biel-Tan Craftworld (NetEA Compendium 1.0) ================================================== WRAITHGATE - 50 ASPECT WARRIOR WARHOST - 600 6x Striking Scorpion 2x Dark Reaper(Aurarch+Exarch) 4x Wave Serpent GUARDIAN WARHOST - 475 Farseer 7x Guardians 3x Wraithguard 3x Wraithlords WINDRIDER TROUPE - 200 4x Jetbike 2x Vyper WINDRIDER TROUPE - 200 4x Jetbike 2x Vyper SWORDS OF VAUL TROUPE - 250 5x Falcon RANGER TROUPE - 125 5x Ranger RANGER TROUPE - 100 4x Range The gate gives you the movement to cross the board and support your Rangers quickly and efficiently. I would Garrison the Rangers and keep the Guardians and 1 or 2 Jetbike formations in the webway. Use the Falcons to cover your backfield and Blitz. Use the Aspect for main hammer being supported by jetbikes. Oh and Welcome to the Boards!

Author:	Geep [ Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list
Thanks for the welcome- I've been lurking on this forum for a while now. Oops- hadn't noticed the Avatar was a War Engine. I guess I'll leave him out until later. I know EA is usually played at around 3000pts, but I decided that it would be easiest to make starter armies based on half that points amount. Most of that decision comes from the fact that the other starter army I'm working on is Tyranids, where their entire list composition is based on 3rds of points (having a limit of 500pts of synaptic creatures is easier to work with than 333 or 667 points from 1000pt or 2000pt lists respectively). Why do most people not mix aspects in a squad? It seems like a good idea as it allows versatility, but Eldar units tend to be skilled enough to not suffer much drawback (and 'engage' is usually the best action for all aspect units). As for mixing Vypers and Jetbikes, I can see some bonus in the versatility of the formation, but doesn't this also cause some conflict in the best orders to give them? Jetbikes probably want to 'engage', whereas Vypers would want to 'Advance' or 'Double'. Thanks for the list- is there any reason why not to take Support or Heavy Weapons with the guardians? I like the idea of Wraithguard to absorb hits, but actually getting the models seems to be a problem (2 stands per 2 guardian formations, when the required size is 3?).

Author:	PitFiend [ Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list
Geep wrote: As for mixing Vypers and Jetbikes, I can see some bonus in the versatility of the formation, but doesn't this also cause some conflict in the best orders to give them? Jetbikes probably want to 'engage', whereas Vypers would want to 'Advance' or 'Double'. You want to be able to use the best option at a given time. If your formation is purely bikes, you can't shoot at anything, and if it's all vypers, it's less dangerous in assaults. If you've got two formations of 4 bikes + 2 vypers, you can activate the first one, move close to an enemy formation and shoot with the vypers. Then, you activate the second formation and assault. The blast marker(s) the first formation put down will make a huge difference to the assault, and the first formation will be able to provide supporting fire in the assault anyway. If one formation comes under fire before activating, you use that formation to do the set-up, and the undamaged formation to execute the assault. On the other hand, if you've got one formation all vyper, and one all bike, an opponent who knows what he's doing will shoot at the bike formation first so as to make your assault significantly less likely to work. Also, once you start taking casualties, if the vypers are kept alive, you end up with a remnant formation that can move like lightning and put that all important blast marker just where you need it. You'll find there's games where just one blast marker, from coming under fire, will break a formation or finish off a broken remnant.

Author:	Angel_of_Caliban [ Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list
PitFiend explains the Jetbikes well. As for the Aspects. I just find a more solid plan for them is better. Yeah, the Avatar has DC3 and is a WE. There not that hard to throw in, so I'm sure you'll be fielding him soon. Guardians, I've ran platforms before but WG are just better and I don't want to over boalt the formations. About the need 3 stands, I forgot you were using the "Official list" in the NetEA updated one you can have 1-3 WG per formation at 50 each. Makes it easier to field. I'll run 2 a formation sometimes instead of 3. Might want to look into that. I also run Alanitoc List. I do love my Rangers!

Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=20200	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Justiniel [ Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list
Weapons platforms for the guardians are better if you are sitting back field, blitz watching, if you are on the offensive wraithguard are the way to go.

Author:	Ginger [ Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list
First off, starting small is a good ides in order to understand the rules and tactics (like the idea of moving in close and shooting with one formation, then retaining to assault the target with a second). There are a lot of other 'smart' ideas, and the Eldar probably have more than most other armies. Read up their 'special rules' carefully. Geep wrote: Why do most people not mix aspects in a squad? It seems like a good idea as it allows versatility, but Eldar units tend to be skilled enough to not suffer much drawback (and 'engage' is usually the best action for all aspect units). It depends on the Aspects:- if you mix other aspects into Swooping Haks or Warp Spiders, they lose their ability to Teleport and infiltrate respectively, so these are usually played as mono-formations. However it is more usual to see the other Aspects mixed up as this makes best use of their particular strengths. The classic Dire Avengers/Striking Scorpions formation (with Exarchs) provides up to 18x 4+ atttacks in assault, and can then provide a reasonable support force. I personally favour using 3x DA, 3x SS and 2x Fire Dragon Exarchs which also allows 2 shooting attacks (for prepping a target) and slightly better support capabilities - but half the fun is working out your own compositions and tactics. Geep wrote: As for mixing Vypers and Jetbikes, I can see some bonus in the versatility of the formation, but doesn't this also cause some conflict in the best orders to give them? Jetbikes probably want to 'engage', whereas Vypers would want to 'Advance' or 'Double'. As above, the point here is to be able to shoot, which automatically puts a BM on the target even if no hits are inflicted as PF says. The drawback is that Vypers are light vehicles, so now the formation can be shot at by AT weaponry as well as AP (though all AT shots must be placed on the Vypers). Geep wrote: Thanks for the list- is there any reason why not to take Support or Heavy Weapons with the guardians? I like the idea of Wraithguard to absorb hits, but actually getting the models seems to be a problem (2 stands per 2 guardian formations, when the required size is 3?). In E:A, most formations work better when they are upgraded, and Guardians are no exception. The basic formation has tremendous assault capabilities, but cannot shoot. Swapping 1 Guardian for a Heavy weapons unit allows you to lay a BM as above to prepare a target for assault by a second formation. But Heavy Weapon units have much worse assault capabilities, which is the main tactic for the Guardian formation. Also, with no armour the Guardians in the open die in droves. This can be mitigated by putting them in terrain (to gain the terrain cover save) or by upgrading them:- Swapping 3 Guardians for Heavy weapons and buying 3 Support platforms turns the formation into a respectable OverWatch defence force, though it is still unarmoured so needs to be deployed in woods or buildings to gain the cover save. Upgrading with Wave Serpents makes the Guardians mobile and also provides armoured units that (with carefull positioning) can absorb up to four hits, reducing the effect of shooting and assaults on the Guardians. Upgrading with WraithGuard or Wraith Lords provides both armoured units, greater assault capabilities and 'Fearless' units that are much harder to kill. However, these can only be deployed rapidly via a wraithgate or Storm Serpents (that have a wraithgate). Without these, the formation must march forward on Foot - though two marches will take you right across the battlefield.

Author:	arkturas [ Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list
Geep wrote: I know EA is usually played at around 3000pts, but I decided that it would be easiest to make starter armies based on half that points amount. Most of that decision comes from the fact that the other starter army I'm working on is Tyranids, where their entire list composition is based on 3rds of points (having a limit of 500pts of synaptic creatures is easier to work with than 333 or 667 points from 1000pt or 2000pt lists respectively). It's also worth noting that the general feeling on Tyranids is that they are not a suitable starter army as they break a significant amount of core rules and make it harder to transition to a conventional force later if you've learned with Tyranids.

Author:	Geep [ Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list
Thanks for the advice- I think I understand the mixing of Vypers and Jetbikes now, especially as I've remembered that a unit which has marched cannot contribute to a Crossfire (so why not double and lay a BM as well?). Quote: I forgot you were using the "Official list" in the NetEA updated one you can have 1-3 WG per formation at 50 each. What's the difference between NetEA and regular EA? Other than fan based rules additions, are there any core rule changes? Quote: Weapons platforms for the guardians are better if you are sitting back field, blitz watching This is my current plan for the guardians. In higher points games I'd also like to have some in waveserpents. Quote: It's also worth noting that the general feeling on Tyranids is that they are not a suitable starter army This is the general consensus I received when I started with Tyranids. It's the main reason I'm now looking at Eldar (and maybe Marines too). I'm still going to have a try at the 'Nids (partly so I can get an opponent- I know no other players). I still think I'll see how my mixed Aspect Warriors go before I decide against them (I have the models already, so there's no reason not to). Thanks again

Author:	Spectrar Ghost [ Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list
NetEA is what emerged after GW canned SG. It consisted (at least initally) of the core of original playtesters for EA, who wanted to continue that development. Ruleswise, there is no significant change from the 2008 version of the rules on GWs website. In fact, Hena (one of the three members of the Net Epic Rules Commitee [NetERC], with nealhunt and Chroma), was the driving force behind getting that document on GW's site, IIRC.

Author:	KriegXXIX [ Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list
I have been on the receiving end of an Eldar beatdown more than I would like to admit. Guardian formations with Wraith Guard are a hard nut to crack. They do need the webway to get the most out of them as their limited move is a big con. It has been my impression that Spears, Hawks and Spiders work best as pure formations. The other aspects can be mixed depending on how you want to run. Aspects in Wave Serpents work well as independent formations but are very expensive. You can run them with webway assaults, but I think Guardians or Spiders work a bit better for that. The last way is aerial assaults which can be good.

Author:	PitFiend [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list
KriegXXIX wrote: You can run them with webway assaults, but I think Guardians or Spiders work a bit better for that. Just be careful with use of webway assaults. Storm Serpents can be destroyed, and if something's coming out of the webway objective, I believe it can't even assault out if an enemy model is covering it with a zone of control. So putting a lot of formations in the webway may be a dangerous move.

Author:	Angel_of_Caliban [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list
PitFiend wrote: KriegXXIX wrote: You can run them with webway assaults, but I think Guardians or Spiders work a bit better for that. Just be careful with use of webway assaults. Storm Serpents can be destroyed, and if something's coming out of the webway objective, I believe it can't even assault out if an enemy model is covering it with a zone of control. So putting a lot of formations in the webway may be a dangerous move. That was debated. But it was agreed, I believe, that you can Engage out of a Webway if its blocked by Enemy Troops.

Author:	KriegXXIX [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list
All good points about the ramifications of webway assaults. Some armies have an easier time killing storm serpents than others. I generally don't approach a webway gate closer than 35 cm until all of the guardians are out.

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Author:	carlos [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Newbie looking at Eldar- 1500pt list
KriegXXIX wrote: It has been my impression that Spears, Hawks and Spiders work best as pure formations. Agree on hawks and spiders, but it's feasible to run a mix of Spears and Wave Serpent-mounted Aspects. They move at the same speed and the Spears can hug the serpents for cover since they are infantry. Can bring down the cost of a mechanized Aspect Warrior fm and w/ their lance attack can make an interesting change from the other close specialists, the scorpions.