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European championship

 Post subject: European championship
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:15 pm 
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Location: Berlin
I’ve been to tournaments in Germany (obviously), Austria and the UK to play Epic and I surely will go to France at some time.
I know of a enthusiastic group of players in Hungary,
There are many enthusiastic communities I do not know about.

Knowing about enthusiastic players all over Europe led to the idea of doing a yearly European championship.

I understand that many players don’t like to travel just to go to a tournament and that it may for some be too expensive to travel abroad,
so I would like to hear wether there would be interest in doing such championship and if so how many people would be interested.

To give you an idea what it would be about:

Each participating country will send 4 players to the championship.
As proposed by Apocolocyntosis: Players of countries that can not field 4 players can form alliances.
Those can only be formed by players of neighboring countries or from a geographic area known under a "common name" e.g. Benelux, Scandinavia or such. Each of these teams has to be acknowledged by the organizer to prevent misuse i.e to field multiple national teams.
The venue for the championship will move every year to a different participating country. The order will be established using some rotation scheme.
It would be preferable to hold the championship in major cities as it is possible to get cheap flights to major cities when booked in advance. Also you can expect major cities to have some not too expensive accommodation options.
Major cities also offer the opportunity to add some days for sight seeing and convince the other half to accompany you.

The date will preferably be fixed. Something like the last weekend in September, so people can plan decades in advance.

There is one spokesman for each country. When I say spokes person, it would be good if he had experience with organizing tournaments and it would be very helpful if he has the support of a club. (edit)
He nominates the players and makes sure they attend and will be the organizer of the championship when it will be held in the country he represents.
The organizer of the championship decides which army list/rules system to use - NetEA, EpicUK or EpicFrance.
The championship language is English. The organizer has to make sure that all rules and army lists will be available in English.
The championship is a two day tourney with 4 or 5 games of 3 or 4k at the organizer’s discretion.
All armies must be fully painted.
Players of the same nation must not choose the same race more than once. (Race being Marines, Imperium, Eldar and such. E.g. a nation can not field Blood Angels and Space Wolves)

The matches will be preset.
E.g. (Nation/Player)
N1P1 - N2P1
N1P2 - N3P1
and so on
It will be made sure that
No player will play against a player of his nation.
No player will play the same opponent twice.
Each nation will make the same number of games against the other nations.
Each player will make the same number of games against players of each of the other nations.

Nation number and Player number (to determine who plays whom) will be determined randomly before the first game - so no scheming and setting armies against armies.

The army lists must be sent in 2 weeks in advance and will be published on a website to be accessed by all.
Later voluntarily changes are not possible.
If one of the lists is illegal, offending parts have to be removed until the list is valid.
If there are different ways, choose the one which removes the leaf number of points.
Once the army is valid, elements can be added to the army to bring it's size up to the points limit. You can only add to existing formations or add new formations, but not replace or remove units or formations.

A player gets
3 tournament points for a game won by objectives.
2 tournament points for a game drawn by objectives but won by a points difference of at least 250 points.
1 tournament point for a game drawn by objectives and won or lost by a points difference of less than 250 points.
0 tournament points otherwise.

There are two championships - team and single.
The ranking is determined by number of tournament points, in case of a draw by difference of objectives taken and lost.
If this is also equal the place is split.
There are first second and third place in the team championship.
There is only a first place in the singles championship.
Mainly because the result is a bit arbitrary, as the winner not necessarily played the best opponents. Which wouldn’t be a problem as long as the other „best“ players were from a different nation.
Not sure wether this would really bother anybody, but it felt odd to me, that somebody gets second place, because he didn’t play the best player while all other contenders had to, this might happen with the Swiss System as well, but with the Swiss System this is not by design.

Additional prices for best painted and most sporting player may be given.

Before you start ripping the rules apart, it would be good to know wether you are interested in something like this and wether you are willing to put your money where your mouth is.

Regards
Stephan


Last edited by brumbaer on Wed May 21, 2014 12:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: European championship
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:27 pm 
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Posts: 483
Location: Austria
This is a great idea.

I am all for it, and I am sure most of the regular players from Austria are as well.
I have no trouble going to the UK, Germany, Hunary or most of the other neighbouring nations. I am not sure about the flight situation to France, but I am sure we can manage once a year.

As you said it should be a location that is easily accesible with either plane, car or train.

cheers,


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 Post subject: Re: European championship
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:28 pm 
Purestrain
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brumbaer wrote:
Before you start ripping the rules apart,

I have one addition to maybe help encourage people. You could add a mixed team for countries that are unlikely to make a 4 player team on their own. For example, some of the nordic countries might have 1 or 2 people interested, but not be able to do a team of 4.

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 Post subject: Re: European championship
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:32 pm 
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Location: Berlin
Apocolocyntosis wrote:
brumbaer wrote:
Before you start ripping the rules apart,

I have one addition to maybe help encourage people. You could add a mixed team for countries that are unlikely to make a 4 player team on their own. For example, some of the nordic countries might have 1 or 2 people interested, but not be able to do a team of 4.


Good idea


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 Post subject: Re: European championship
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:34 pm 
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Location: Leicester UK
Sounds really interesting, I'd be keen to take part if finances/family/job permit :) I often knock around these kinds of ideas

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 Post subject: Re: European championship
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:53 pm 
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Did some edits.

I'm happy to give credit for ideas and such, but after some time (read edits), I will remove them, because the text will be too cluttered otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: European championship
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:53 pm 
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Location: Norrköping, Sweden.
Sounds cool! Sweden can bring 4! We will pillage and ra...eh... Rava... Eeeh... Scream loudly!

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 Post subject: Re: European championship
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 11:30 pm 
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I have a question. Are the nation groups being pitted against each other?

If they aren't, then how come only four players per team? Couldn't there be two teams from Germany, if enough players from Germany are interested?

I am sure you have a reason for this, but I don't see it just yet.

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 Post subject: Re: European championship
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 12:21 am 
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bertnernie wrote:
I have a question. Are the nation groups being pitted against each other?

If they aren't, then how come only four players per team? Couldn't there be two teams from Germany, if enough players from Germany are interested?

I am sure you have a reason for this, but I don't see it just yet.


Let's say there are 4 games.

If we had 5 teams it would be very simple, because every player would make one game against a player of each other nation.
If we had only 4 nations it would get more complicated. Each player would make three games against players of different nations. The forth game would have to be against a second player from a nation he already played.
The nation a player plays twice against would be different for every player of a nation. So player one would play twice against nation 1, player 2 twice against nation 2 and so on. The forth player would have to play twice against a nation somebody else of his team has already played against twice.

If it really gets to complicate, I will write an app to sort it out :)

Why only one team ?
This is a nation not a team event. Same chances for every nation.
Space will be limited and I prefer having 6 teams of 6 different nations over 4 German teams playing 2 swedish ones.
To increase the number of people the spokesperson can draw from. At the beginning everybody is enthusiastic, the closer we get to the event, the more problems will occur. I'm sorry, i don't get a holiday, I'm broke, the dog ate my miniatures, my spouse will leave me, if I fly to wherever to play ...... If somebody can just field 4 people, he might find himself hard pressed at the time of tournament. It might also be a good idea to take commitment under consideration when deciding who to choose.
The spokesperson will be responsible for organizing the championship in his country at some time. Having more than one team will just lead to pushing the responsibilities around.
The goal is to get a kernel of spokespersons who commit themselves and will keep the championship alive over a longer period.
I'm aware of the drawback that some players will be left out. Approach the spokesperson for your country and ask him to select you or ask him to organize a tournament to find the best players, or become the spokesperson.

It would also be possible to have an event like this in Berlin every year, or one just with teams, without nationality restrictions or a European singles tournament using the Swiss System or something different.

But the idea behind this European championship is that it isn't just a local tournament which you attend this year or not, but a tournament which moves between European cities and which is not a tournament by any club, but a tournament borne (I hope this is the right word) by a group of persona/clubs all over Europe.

If we do not find enough committed spokespersons, we still can organize a championship in Berlin and that could have multiple entries per nation, but it would be something different and would probably loose attractiveness once the novelty is gone.

By the way, when I say spokes person, it would be good if he had experience with organizing tournament and it would be very helpful if he has the support of a club.


Last edited by brumbaer on Wed May 21, 2014 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: European championship
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 5:19 am 
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Location: Norrköping, Sweden.
I am ready to host it!

I've organized everything from concerts and big parties to martial arts tournaments the last 10 years!

I'm also the owner if a 500m2 martial arts facility which we could use for free!

So i got the experience and the resources to pull this off. So just give me the word if you want to go to Sweden! :-)

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 Post subject: Re: European championship
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 7:33 am 
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I'd be interested

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 Post subject: Re: European championship
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 8:59 am 
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Depending on time of year I'd be interested - Republic of Yorkshire?

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 Post subject: Re: European championship
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 10:35 am 
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What about making it biennial? maybe would be more special and increase attendance

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 Post subject: Re: European championship
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 11:54 am 
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I'd like to think that TMG could put in an appearance in some manner.

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