It was my intention this year to have a really good crack at winning the championship. Looking at the events however i was hoping to attend 6 but realistically knew it would be 4 or 5. Knowing that there are 8 qualifying tournements gave me concern as the more you attend the more likely you are to win/be top three.

I mentioned this to Matt, but he likes it as it encourages people to attend more tournements. Unfortunately it has now had the opposite effect on me, as i know i can't make Wakefield, and now Britcon.

(Ah the Irony, just spend loads of money on a ready painted Guard army - about 6,000 points and an Eldar army - about 5,000 points, but now can't afford to go to Britcon!!!!!)

I was discussing this with a friend this morning who made the following suggestion:
Why not have a championship tournement at the end of the year. Stick with the league championship, and have a league champion. People get their seedings from that, and are then invited to the final one day tournement. 1st plays 8th, 2nd v 7th etc. It's then a knockout type situation for placings.

This would then give people like me who only attend a few tournements a year a chance to play in a tournement for standings (and bragging rights) as long as attain enough points throughout the year that is!

I appreciate that this is giving 'our scene' a more competative feel, and excludes some of our/my friends from the last tournement.

Just wondered what peoples thoughts are?

The only other way i can think of to win the championship is by taking your top 4 results from the year and getting an average (and breaking Dave's fingers!)

Just while you're on the subject of averages, I have simple stupid system for placings for fantasy epic.

A tournament winner gets 1 point. Tournament loser (last place) gets 0. Everyone else gets a fraction in between depending on their placing.

A Players score is averaged out over the tournaments he's played in. Just out of interest, the top 3 results for the past few years is below, with the number of tournaments attended in parentheses

2007
----
(7) Joe Jephson
(1) Scott Bennet
(4) Nathan Hoole

2008
----
(5) Dave Thomas
(3) Nathan Hoole
(2) Nick Rice

2009
----
(3) Dave Thomas
(4) Mark Hargrave
(2) Nathan Hoole

I'm not suggesting that this system should actually be used - but it does indicate that if you can manage to attend a few more gigs. Say as many as DT then you do stand a chance with the idea of bringing DT down a peg.

_________________
[url=http://tinyurl.com/bott2015][img]http://i62.tinypic.com/205fcow.jpg[/img][/url]

How about jsut taking your top five scores or something encourages a minimum attendence, just taking an average can skew it, if I attend one tournement and win then no more then I will win the rankings war, as we see in 2007

Yes indeed. There are systems for dealing with averages when you have only a small amount of data. Crazy stuff like Bayesian averaging for example. They always cause contention!

Anyway. When making my predictions for fantasy, any placing that look out of whack for the current year, I just factor in values from previous years. Of course, new comers can still get skewy results.

I don't know if an averages system would be good for the official championship, but if you where going to go down that route then a min attendance threshold to qualify, as you suggested, seems reasonable.

_________________
[url=http://tinyurl.com/bott2015][img]http://i62.tinypic.com/205fcow.jpg[/img][/url]

Well last year Dave T attend 5 out of 8 tournaments, winning 4 of them. I think he would have won the championship however you break it down.

The championship is all a bit of fun and also encourage players to try different lists with the bonus points on offer. If its putting people off then maybe it should be removed? Would you attend more tournaments then?

Personally I don't like the idea of an invitational event. Epic is a game for the masses and if people want to come and play they should be able to. Every one should experience the dice of dave in the hands of the master himself  

It doesn't matter how you do it ... it will never be perfect.

The whole point about the championship is to get more people to attend more tournaments (and, on the whole, I think it achieves that goal). The problem with the system you are suggesting Nathan is that, once you're in the top 8 (and lets face it, Dave Thomas is already there) then there is no point attending further events, thus reducing numbers from events later on in the year. Also taking the best top 5, or averaging your results, does also lead to the possibility of people not attending tournaments because their actual score might go down. This system means you can enter EPIC tournaments without the fear of leaving the tournament worse of (in the championship) than arriving.

We have to be releastic; if we had 200 EPIC players in the UK and events were always sold out then yes, an 'average', 'best of 5' or 'top 8 tournament' championship might work but we don't have enough EPIC players attending tournaments at the moment ... this has to be our main priority.

Thank you

_________________
EPIC UK Chairman
www.epic-uk.co.uk

EPIC UK - Improving and Enhancing Epic gaming in the UK

chairman@epic-uk.co.uk

All you had to do Nathan was win all the tournaments you made it too

You still have a chance get to Britcon which it doesnt look like Dave can make and whoop us all with a new army and then you are equal on points with Dave.

Dont see the problem.

I actually quite like your idea of a knockout event just because it would be something different with its own unique pressures, but I think it would also be problematical to run (In terms of when to fit it in the year and what happens if people cant make it etc) and probably a bit too competitive an idea for the epic scene.

Another possibility would be to add everyones 6 best scores together for the year, it still gives people  who go to 7 or 8 tournies an advantage because they can drop their worst scores but it would give a better chance to win the championship to someone who can only make say 5 events.

_________________
Epic UK - Improving and Enhancing Epic Gaming in the UK
[url]http://epic-uk.co.uk/wp[/url]

Nice debate guys.

Alan, i like your system - i'm top three every year!!!!!!!!!!
Yeh i know DT is the player to beat, and i'll have another crack later on. I still intend to come to either or both 31/10 and Nov two dayer.

Matt O. I don't think that anybody would stop coming to the tournements at the end of the year just to win it/come high. We all love this game and will attand as and when we can. And as mentioned, it is for fun.

Joe. Mark Hargreaves was lucky at the CC and he knows it   . Epic is now my second game, warmachine has taken over. I'm off to Cardiff in August as it's one night and £40 all in as opposed to £128 all in and two nights away from my beautiful children and wife. I still intend to come to the epic tournements and i generally average about three a year (it was warhammer before warmachine that stopped me attending more)

I know averages are more feasable (yeh yeh DT will still win that) which is why i wanted to discuss something a bit different.

Is that a warmachine or epic tournament in Cardiff in August? I live in Cardiff myself.

Warmachine, and core GW games I think.

Well as a man missing most as well, I agree (Of course would I agree if I could go for all? )

Any excuse for another tourny is good enough for me - though it doesn't have to be invitation, it would just be instead you know in advance who you will play each round based on tourny scores. But its something you have to attend, so falls into being problematic for those who can't come, just like the rest of the year.

Alternatively you can just take the 4 best tourneys and average them - does it make much of a difference? It shouldn't affect attendance as bad performance can't affect your score if you have already had 4 good goes.

Then thee is the final fiendish maths solution where you plot everyones average performances against each other to build up a picture of who would be likely to win an tourney like you suggest (so play out a fantasy tourney calculating who would win each round ).

But of course as its all a bit of fun I'm not too fussed what system is used, I just want to be around to come!

Edit - of course between hitting reply, putting my daughter to bed, falling asleep as well, I missed all the follow up replies!

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

To correct a small misimpression, my original aim in setting up the championship was to try to provide sensible statistics for each Race, (hence the bonus points for using different armies) as well as trying to determine "the best general".

IMHO the increase in the number of players at UK events has been the result of Matt's excellent system rather than 'the championshhip', (which would actually seem to have deterred some people because of the perception of increasingly competitive participants - not true I may add).

There may be ways to even up the scores of those forcd to miss events (the 'best of 5' approach is one), but they also provide disadvantages like more ties. Lower down the field more people will tend to have the same scores, and the 'Race bonus' may also skew results.

Do many other people feel like giving up the UK events because they cannot win the Championship? In my case getting into the top half of the field would be a result, and there are many like me who play just for the fun of it, winning any games being a bonus!

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

Which has worked very well (but I feel manipulated now!).

In my case getting into the top half of the field would be a result, and there are many like me who play just for the fun of it, winning any games being a bonus!

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

On the different races, not sure if we need the bonus, but it is nice to play against different races.  for myself I hope to get another army every six months or so, the best way to learn to beat an army is actually to play with it.

Oh and Nathan, I made sure I was lucky by a ritual scarifice to the dice gods before the CC

I prefer the best for results but then no-one will beat Dave, I am only level on points as I have attended more tournament, however regardless of the method or this championship I will attnd as many tornaments as I can