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ERC Representation
Braveheart
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:37 pm 
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As organiser of most of the UK tournament scene I too vote Mephiston (Dave to me :) ) as a ERC member.

I think it's about time we actually had someone who plays different opponents from different parts of the country so a decent view can be taken on changes. Some of the changes (MW Barrage) are frankly laughable

Cheers

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Chroma
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:17 am 
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(Braveheart @ Sep. 04 2007,23:37)
QUOTE
Some of the changes (MW Barrage) are frankly laughable

Well, that one was actually proposed by Jervis himself... *laugh*

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Moscovian
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:32 am 
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Just to be clear, that was not my intent at all.  Ignore what I said.  Change it to "community, the friendly games, the non-GW organized tournaments" and you've got my meaning.

In other words, anyone who isn't GW is free to use whatever ruleset and lists s/he chooses when organizing a tourney.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:29 am 
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(Moscovian @ Sep. 04 2007,18:32)
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In other words, anyone who isn't GW is free to use whatever ruleset and lists s/he chooses when organizing a tourney.

Yes but I think you'd limit your access to players if your rules were too divergent from the current official rules.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:37 am 
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(Rug @ Sep. 04 2007,18:11)
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Whilst the "Epic community participating in tournaments"   (which in the context of the thread came across as the UK scene) are "not enough" to have a representative.

I'm not sure where that opinion is coming from but I have to echo Neal's comments. We've received tons of good feedback from tournaments and tournament organizers.

The game was written specifically to be played in a tournament setting and the main scenario is a tournament scenario.

Now it may be a fact that tournament gamers are not a big percentage of total gamers but they are probably the most vocal so I think it is more likely that the "majority" non-tournament gamers are the ones not getting represented.

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yme-loc
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:04 am 
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(Chroma @ Sep. 05 2007,01:17)
QUOTE

(Braveheart @ Sep. 04 2007,23:37)
QUOTE
Some of the changes (MW Barrage) are frankly laughable

Well, that one was actually proposed by Jervis himself... *laugh*

True but jervis probably hadnt played a game of epic in years when he did.

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blackhorizon
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:04 pm 
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Battlefleet Gothic player bumps in.....

...
okay BFG got an updated rulebook in 2007 which was done badly, the subsequent FAQ wasn't a masterpiece either.

BFG has one member of the HA who is on a lot of duty these days. The other two manage the game quite well.
I think they want to game to improve / develop more but SG's money hampers it.

I have no idea on the BFG tournament scene. Not a single hinch on what goes on there (somebody wants to write a Warp Rift article? :) ).

Where am I drifting....?

Maybe all seems slow and updates seem far away. Epic has a problem which BFG doesn't have: in BFG we have SG models for all races, Epic lacks there.

Personally I would not want an extreme fast growing / developing set of rules.

Take the MMS Eldar House Rules I write & update: I plan a maximum of 2 updates (online) a year despite a request for shorter updates.

If SG could do 1 update a year for all rulesets that would be massive.

just me.....

ah well, enough mini's to collect
enough lists & tactics to explore left.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:33 pm 
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(yme-loc @ Sep. 05 2007,10:04)
QUOTE

(Chroma @ Sep. 05 2007,01:17)
QUOTE

(Braveheart @ Sep. 04 2007,23:37)
QUOTE
Some of the changes (MW Barrage) are frankly laughable

Well, that one was actually proposed by Jervis himself... *laugh*

True but jervis probably hadnt played a game of epic in years when he did.

Actually, he was still regularly involved at the point he wrote the experimental rule doc.  The MWBP change was not a suggestion from the forums but something he came up with based on off-forum feedback and his own game experience.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:46 pm 
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I'm in favor of putting the ERC back up to 5 people.  AFAIK, both Greg and Sotec agree.  The problem is that Andy made it clear that he doesn't think it's necessary and doesn't want to mess with it.  this is more or less due to the situation at SG.  Greg, Sotec and I countered with a plan of "get the rules review done, then worry about the ERC" which was allowed to stand without comment.

I don't think there is a remote possibility of getting any "official" blessing from SG for new ERC members and as for the ERC voting in new members, I submitted final text for several rule changes to the ERC up to ~6 months ago and still have not gotten a firm vote.  My hopes for electing new members is not high.

All of that is why I've been working with Markconz to get a quasi-official "Epicomms EA" or "NetEA" or whatever in shape.


In the meantime, I feel terrible that people feel like their opinions have been ignored or trampled on.  I'd like to do what I can to address them.  What issues have you felt ignored or unrepresented on?

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nealhunt
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:54 pm 
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(Rug @ Sep. 05 2007,19:44)
QUOTE
I personally think that changes to what is already a very good system should be kept to a minimum, ie one double sided sheet of A4 - clearly layed out in a professional manner.

I think the only thing that would prevent that from happening in the current form is the text for the assault changes.  Aside from that, all the changes - rules and army lists, could probably fit like that.

That said, I have included commentary and plenty of context in the change doc I created.  This was done simply for the sake of clarity.  I tried to include as much text surrounding the change as possible to make certain there was minimal possibility of misunderstood intent (of course there will still be some anyway...).  As a result, the change docs run to several pages each.

A stripped down version should be easy to complete, should it be deemed a worthy project.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:36 pm 
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For me personally I feel that the problem isn't the players being represented, it is about results.  The discussions have been had, the decisions made, and then nothing happens.  It is akin to being an Army Champion, getting feedback from playtesters, acknowledging the changes need to be made, then not putting out the updated list.  Then having people ask you for the updates, you tell them it will be updated, then nothing again.

In many respects it is the dumbest place you can fail as a Rules Champion.  God love him but Greg is like a fart in a whirlwind when it comes to the ERC decisions.

The community needs action, not e-paper promises.  I think this is why Mark's work is being received as well as it is (despite his charming NZ ways :;): ).  

Neal, I guess my request is that you push Andy to do something.  Ultimately it would be great if he could acknowledge a new ERC (even if it was 3 people) is needed and give it a blessing.  It would be even better if he posted and linked it to an election we held here.  It may sound awful but is there any way you can corner him into making a firm statement?

There is no doubt in my mind that you would be on it.  I highly doubt Greg would receive many votes and I am not even sure Sotec wants to be on it anymore.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:56 pm 
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I have to agree with Moscovian, the main issue is that lots of debate has been had, some even concluded in a consensus opinion! Then nothing happens, rules get re-discussed and people either get entrenched in positions or become disillusioned with the whole process.

I have to add that the UK tournament scene is very split over all the changes / upgrades, but we all want a resolution to the current situation so we can concentrate on playing this game. After all that's why we are all here and remain here.
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Markconz
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:36 am 
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(Moscovian @ Sep. 05 2007,20:36)
QUOTE
In many respects it is the dumbest place you can fail as a Rules Champion.  God love him but Greg is like a fart in a whirlwind when it comes to the ERC decisions.

The community needs action, not e-paper promises.  I think this is why Mark's work is being received as well as it is (despite his charming NZ ways :;): ).

Hey!  :laugh:

Given your first couple of lines there, maybe some of my charming NZ colonial bluntness is rubbing off on you too Mosc...?  :;):

Theoretically it also tends to go with the NZ 'number 8 wire approach' of making do with whatever is to hand and producing some practical results. Without wanting to conform to overstated stereotypes, perhaps the handbook could be seen as an example of that too...

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