People have been copying Dptdexys's lists long before they were on the epic-uk website. Sucess generates such followers .

However, very few of them actually made them work as well as Dptdexys so it does show that you are better playing something you designed to work for your style of game.

Here's the list I sent in (hopefully no penalty for being a day late). Slight changes to previous Cultist list's used but not much.


List :- Lost and the Damned 3000 points

STIGMATUS COVEN [390]
10x Cultists, Daemon Prince (Arch Heretic), (Slaanesh),1x Big Mutant, Traitor Hydra, 7 Land Transporters.
STIGMATUS COVEN [310]
11x Cultists, Chaos Marine Aspiring Champion, (Slaanesh), Traitor Hydra, 6x Land Transporter.
STIGMATUS COVEN [310]
11x Cultists, Chaos Marine Aspiring Champion, (Slaanesh), Traitor Hydra, 6x Land Transporter.
STIGMATUS COVEN [310]
11x Cultists, Chaos Marine Aspiring Champion, (Slaanesh), Traitor Hydra, 6x Land Transporter.
STIGMATUS COVEN [280]
13x Cultists, Chaos Marine Aspiring Champion, (Slaanesh), Traitor Hydra.
PLAGUE ZOMBIE INFESTATION [175]
3D6 Plague Zombie Units.
SLAANESH DAEMON KNIGHTS [275]
4x Daemon Knights.
SLAANESH DAEMON KNIGHTS [275]
4x Daemon Knights.
SLAANESH SCOUT TITANS [225]
1x Subjugator.
SLAANESH SCOUT TITANS [225]
1x Subjugator.
SLAANESH SCOUT TITANS [225]
1x Subjugator.

I'll be using death guard again but trying out some new units.

DEATH GUARD RETINUE [425]
7 Plague Marines, Daemon Prince (Supreme Commander)

DEATH GUARD RETINUE [325]
Chaos Lord, 7 Plague Marines

DEATH GUARD RETINUE [325]
Chaos Lord, 7 Plague Marines

DEATH GUARD TERMINATORS [400]
4 Terminators, Chaos Lord

PLAGUE ENGINES [325]
4 Contagion Engine

DEATH GUARD DEFILER PACK [300]
4 Defilers

DEATH GUARD DEFILER PACK [300]
4 Defilers

PLAGUE ZOMBIE INFESTATION [200]
3+2D6 Plague Zombies

PLAGUE ZOMBIE INFESTATION [200]
3+2D6 Plague Zombies

HELLBLADE FLIGHT [200]
3 Fighters

Mech FW+Skyray
Mech FW+Skyray
Mech FW+Skyray
Crisis+2 Crisis+ Shas'O
Crisis+1 Crisis
Recon (2 Piranhas 4 Tetras)
Recon (2 Piranhas 4 Tetras)
Recon (2 Piranhas 4 Tetras)
Broadsides
Orca
Orca
Barracudas

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A horrid looking army Steve

I am trying a 'pseudo-ground-pounder' variant of the marines


DEVASTATORS (425)

4x Devs, 2x Rhinos, 2x LR, Rb(AP)

DEVASTATORS (400)

4x Devs, 2x Rhinos, 2x LR

TACTICALS (375)

6x tacticals, 3x Rhinos, Hunter

WARHOUND (275)

1x Warhound

WARHOUND (275)

1x Warhound

MARINE BIKES (250)

5x Marine bikes, Chaplain

LAND SPEEDERS (200)

5x Land Speeders

THUNDERHAWK (200)

1x ThunderHawk

MARINE SCOUTS (150)

4x Marine Scouts, 2x Rhinos

MARINE SCOUTS (150)

4x Marine Scouts, 2x Rhinos

THUNDERBOLTS (150)

2x ThunderBolts

THUNDERBOLTS (150)

2x ThunderBolts

You are correct Rug. No rhinos for Dev's if you take 2 Land Raiders. The online army creator can't enforce such things as yet so probably steered Ginger down that path.

Sorry guys, I may have been mistaken.

I thought that the stipulation to replace Rhinos had been removed as part of the extensive discussions on making the Land Raiders viable. Additionally the way the EPIC-UK army list is now written has added to this confusion as it makes the distinction between how the two upgrades work:-

In the EPIC-UK Marine army lists, the wording for the "Razorback" upgrade now reads
"Add any number of Razorbacks, up to the number required to transport the formation. For every 2 Razorbacks purchased, remove 1 Rhino"
(my emphasis)

While the wording for Land Raider upgrade reads
"Add up to four Land Raiders"

If we want to retain the requirement for Land Raiders to replace Rhinos, then EPIC-UK lists should be corrected to avoid further embarassment like mine.

You may be correct Ginger, I vaguely remember a discussion on this now....but can't remember what was decided. Steve is checking lists for OW so I'm sure he will be in touch if there is an issue.

Its covered by the Space Marine transport rule, if you choose to take Rhino's you get the minimum required to transport the formation and any upgrades. In this instance as you have taken Land Raiders, the minimum required is 0 rhino's.

But I don't want to take anything belonging to Rhino! :p

There's nothing in the "comittee members' intent" section about such an intended boost for Land Raiders, for what it's worth, Dave... though you may have written that part, who knows.

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And also in the latest FAQ produced by Neal on these boards - but these are apparently contradicted by the EPIC-UK army lists which is what I used to create the army; hence the confusion.

If it is indeed intended that Land Raiders upgrade are a replacement for transport rather than an addition, it would be a good idea to change the Land Raider entry. Perhaps

"Add up to four Land Raiders as transport, each replacing a Rhino if available, to the maximum required for the formation"

Either way it is no big deal as I can shuffle the upgrades to suit.

I would also change the Marine Transport section on p4. to read something like the following:-

“Space Marine Transport – The Space Marines are a highly mobile army. Because of this, the points cost of a detachment usually includes enough Rhinos to transport it and any upgrades that have been taken. The number of transport vehicles will always be the minimum needed to carry the formation; though some transport upgrades may exceed this. To work out the formation transport,
1. Add any transport upgrades (except Razorbacks) to the formation.
2. Add enough Rhinos to transport any remaining infantry that won’t fit into the available vehicles.
3. Apply the Razorback upgrade to any Rhinos in the formation.
4. Add any other formation upgrades including other vehicles.

Note that many formations don’t receive Rhinos, usually because they can’t fit into them. Detachments that come with Rhinos will be noted as having ‘plus transport’ in the units section of the army list.

Also note that you don’t have to take Rhinos if you don’t want to. If you’d rather field the formation on foot instead, so it can act as a garrison for example, or be transported in a Thunderhawk Gunship, then you may do so.

In addition, you may choose to replace a detachment’s Rhinos with Drop Pods. If you do this then the detachment will enter play in a Drop Pod using the rules for planetfall (see the EPIC Armageddon Rulebook, section 4.4). Note that if you choose to do this you will also require at least one Space Marine Strike Cruiser or Battle Barge to deploy the Drop Pods from."

EDIT: highlighted revised wording to cover both Razorback and Land Raider upgrade options that could exceed the 'minimum transport' rule, and to allow other transport upgrade options

Ginger: That rule would exclude any possible expansion in the future such as a new type of transport vehicle upgrade?

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I don't think so E&C, though I see where you are coming from. It does depend on whether GW is going to change the core codices in their universe which of course is highly unlikely (though entirely possible given the track record )

So what I think you are concerned about is step #1. How about
1. Add any transport upgrades (except Razorbacks) to the formation.

Note I think the wording I suggest for Land Raider "transport" (above) should be applied to any future transport upgrade options available, though it already covers Land Raider variants (Crusader etc)