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Open War

 Post subject: Open War
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:37 pm 
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Please don't get me wrong, I totally accept that the work to-date put in by both you and Neal (and the international community) is both vital to the future progress of E:A and commendable in its intent. The only point I was suggesting is that, judging by various replies (Moscovian and Tin-Tim for example), some of these proposals may be less mature (or less accepted) than others; and this is especially true of the army lists.

Hena hit ?the nail on the head by saying that he intends to use them for Tournaments "unless others complain". To ensure total fairness in his tournaments, Matt Otter tends to adopt a minimal inclusion policy, requiring the lists and rules revisions to be formally approved before he brings them in - in effect allowing a minority veto to the various proposals. This seems a very good principle, but takes a position nearer to the current set than the Handbook.

Regarding the various revisions presented, I do think it appropriate to present the international community with a process for finalising the various proposals, and what you and Hena suggest seems reasonable; my only comment there might be that
  • At present we do not have an ERC in place to put the final seal of approval,
  • There may be some other steps required (eg a minimum number of battle-reports and evaluations).
  • One step to formal ERC approval might be acceptance by each geographical community (eg. it has become 'tounament legal' in the UK),
  • It might be wise to publish a timetable for the approval process - perhaps quarterly?
  • For expediency, it may well be appropriate to be able to consider each proposal separately,
Is this process something that can be set up and presented here on TacComs (or possibly on the SG boards??)

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 Post subject: Open War
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:10 pm 
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Such a 'new official' process has been continuously talked about Ginger, and I believe it is what we are all working towards in the long term.  However in the meantime I don't see anything could be set up better than what the current ERC process has evolved into (which is really just down to Neal,  the remaining army champions, and willing assistants).

I've said for the Version 1.0 of the handbook I'm just going with whatever Neal decides by end of November. Those change documents are already the very careful final product of years long processes involving many people, including the official ERC (or what was left of it). Now is the final revision process of all that work towards producing a fresh set of experimental rules for everyone.

We've already mucked everyone around for 3 years on all this. This is ridiculous when Greg Lane promised a fresh set of experimental rules would be up over 2 years ago. Here we are finally delivering them 2 and half years late.

Hopefully for Version 2.0 some sort rejuvenated committee will actually exist, and you will find long debates about how that should work already if you look. The important thing is that it has to have some sort of mechanism to kick out people who don't pull their weight, to prevent recurrence of the current ERC disaster.

Anyway like Hena says - feedback and now. This is your chance.

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 Post subject: Open War
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:54 am 
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(Hena @ Oct. 10 2007,17:41)
QUOTE

(Markconz @ Oct. 10 2007,17:10)
QUOTE
Anyway like Hena says - feedback and now. This is your chance.

I wouldn't exactly say it like that. And until there is feedback the rules won't really move from controversial to accepted.

Semantics or translation difficulties, or perhaps a different view of the process Hena.  I'm just going with what the old ERC process was supposed to be (but years late), because I think that process would have made sense had it happened.

That means that I see 'acceptance' as being much later   than I think you are envisioning (and will definitely involve lots of feedback). All I'm talking about is establishing a fresh set of experimental rules for playtest (like the 2004 ones hosted at SG, that Greg Lane should have updated in 2005). It's important to have one standardised set otherwise everyone is on a different page, using different rules and it becomes very hard to get some progress happening. Perhaps you imagine that with the posting of Neal's documents the establishment of a new set of experimental rules for playtesting had already occurred?  I don't - this is just the the final review stage before getting to the stage of one set ready for playtest (despite much playtesting already having occurred already of course...)

So far it seems you have no difficulty accepting for playtest everything Neal has put in his exp rules documents, and neither do I really. However, other people might object to playtesting some of those rules, and it is important to hear those objections now.

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 Post subject: Open War
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:17 pm 
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As this was an important debate, but getting off topic, I started a new thread here

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